Chicago man wears Packers tie to work, is promptly fired

[Thomas Rogers]

Read the article below then chime in folks.



Seems that the dealership was marketing around its Bears fan base and this guy's Packers tie upset that.



I have no problem with someone being fired if what they wear doesn't align with what the employer is marketing, or who they are marketing to.



Also, from my understanding, Illinois is another "employment at-will" state. So, once again, I don't understand why the employer just didn't release the employee without cause, and without reason. That's the beauty of employment at-will states: No reason for dismissal NEEDS to be given; and for those states, it is better to simply NOT GIVE a reason.



TJR

 

[Bill V]

TJR, absolutely. By giving a reason, and more specifically, by giving this particular reason, they open themselves up to lawsuits. Yes, employment is "at-will"--but there are certain reasons which can't be used: race, gender, religion, etc. And for Packers fans, supporting the Packers is a religion--so the dealership is now screwed.



More seriously, though--there are plenty of Packers fans (also known as "potential customers") in the Chicago area. Do you really want to turn any significant portion of your customer base against you by doing this? Let the rest of the sales staff handle the Bears fans, if you think they'll dislike this tie, and let this guy handle the Packers fans. And thus get sales from both sides!

 

[H D]

I am of the mind that a business owner should run the business as he sees fit. You should be sucking up to your boss and meeting his/her every demand and you should be working your butt off. This guy surely knew the business culture he was working in and should have respected that. I seriously doubt the tie was the only reason they wanted him gone; it was probably just somebody's tipping point.



On the other hand, its just a freaking tie. How tightly wound is this dealership management?

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Bill V,



Yeah, I am familar with the illegal reasons for dismissal (add disability and age to your list, and I think you can get rid of etc)...



But I forgot that football fandom can be considered a religion. Maybe he does have a case. LOL!



TJR

 

[Bill V]

TJR--When we Packer fans go to church, we pray to the Holy Trinity of the Father, Son, and St. Vincent Lombardi. :supercool:

 

[Jerry Gerner 2]

I don't think he's gonna need to worry about selling cars anymore unless he wants to open his own dealership with the lawsuit money he's gonna be getting. I love these types of stories, you see them all the time on the news so you'd think teachers and boss's would learn by now they can't do that legally unless they (dealership) had it written in the employment contract that no employees are allowed to wear anything with "Packers" on it.

:cheeky::smack::bwahaha:

 

[EddieS'04]

Since I dont follow sports. I dont understand their marketing strategy. IMO, what ever the stragtegy. Seems it could makes some good contervsy.



I think the dealer is screwed. Especialy if they didnt give him a chance to change the tie.



I agree with hugh,,

On the other hand, its just a freaking tie. How tightly wound is this dealership management?

 

[Kevin Lang]

Wait, this was in Chicago...it all makes sense now.



I don't see any lawsuit potential. At will employment is awesome.

Especialy if they didnt give him a chance to change the tie.

Eddie, apparently they gave him 2 chances to change the tie.

John Stone said that when he showed up at work, general manager Jerry Roberts called him over to his office and then ordered him to take off the Packers tie or else he would be fired. Stone said he thought Roberts was joking and went back to work. An hour later, Stone said, Roberts came to the showroom floor and again demanded he take off the tie. When he didn't, he was fired, Stone said.

Maybe this was some sort of marketing conspiracy; fire the guy because you know it'll make national news, and take that publicity all the way to the bank? In a city where the dead have been known to vote early and often, I wouldn't put it past them :grin:

 

[Tom Schindler]

Was there a policy on what the employee could or couldn't wear?



Does a dealership have the right to stifle his freedom of expression? The tie was not vulgar or obscene.



Sorry, "at will" states are bull$4!t! If I did something wrong to get fired, fire me for it. Don't fire me because I got the sniffles and it pissed you off.





Tom

 

[Bill V]

I saw another article (other than the one linked above) which stated that he was actually asked 5 times to remove it. So while there's much to question in this situation, it sounds like the question of whether he had sufficient opportunity to remove it can be tossed out...

 

[Kevin Lang]

While at-will employment has been used for and against me, it is still a great thing to behold.



IMO, if you're a business owner in a state without at-will employment, you do not own the business.



I can't fire you because you pissed me off, from my own business?! Then I do not own the business. I can't be a germophobe and can you because I'm afraid of your marauding germs?

I can't fire you for "absurd" reasons? Well, who defines absurd? Clearly not me, which opens the door to a 3rd party banning me from firing you for doing something actually in the worst interest of the business. Oh wait, I've seen that happen first hand. Sadly, the nefarious unions can, in effect, overrule at-will employment. Be proud Caymen, be Proud.



The business owner should embody the classic biblical "I am the morning and the evening star, if I say it is so, than it shall be." sentiment of omnipotence. Then, if he fires everyone for having a cold, he goes out of business, and the world continues.

Does a dealership have the right to stifle his freedom of expression?

Since it was on their private property, yes they do. Just as establishments can restrict your ability to carry arms into them, which by what you say would break the 2nd amendment.

 

[EddieS'04]

Caymen,,

This is the one reason where I worked needed the union. We had managers that tried firing people all the time. For the simple reasons you say. Not for job performance. I got caught up in a couple of issues. Nonthing that I did. But union arbitration kept me from being put out the gate over stupidity on the companys part.



In my 36yrs there. I think there were only 4 or 5 fired for performance or safety policies.



Other than that there were maybe 15 fired, that got their job back. Fired over stupidty on the forman or super's part. Independant arbitrators saw right thru it. I sat in on a few of those, as a steward..There was always some strife created by unqaulified managment. By the time I was fed up. I had to much senority. Hard to give that up. Plus by then I was an Instrument tech. They tend to leave you alone then for some reason. As long as you did your job, and kept the unit running.



It wasnt until my 25th year or so. That the company quit promting beer drinking buddies,fishing buddies, bowling buds. Or if you were a lodge brother. You were almost garantied a promotion. Most were mentaly, emotionaly or not knowledgeable of the work to care for manpower. I turned down the interview for I&E forman. I didnt want the headache of dealing with the managers above me. They were the same crowd from the old days.



The company went for OSHA star rating. Managment attitude had to change.

 

[Johnny O]

Seems that the dealership was marketing around its Bears fan base and this guy's Packers tie upset that.

Since I am a former car salesman, I suspect that if he was selling a lot of cars and making money for the dealership, he wouldn't have been fired.



At-will employment means that the employer doesn't need a reason to fire someone BUT that does not preclude the ex-employee from collecting unemployment compensation.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Cayman, Jerry G,



I think you two are wrong on this one. This guy was terminated in an at-will state and not for any reason or condition that is protected.



The guy has no case... Things here are as they should be.



Own your own business and hire your own employees and you will likely sing the praises of at-will employment.



TJR

 

[gary s]

"Sorry, "at will" states are bull$4!t!"



listen, maybe 1 out of 10,000 is fired for "no" reason. you are not going to get fired just for the hell of it !!



remember you are the employee of the company and have to play by the rules.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Funny how some chime in asking about whether or not a policy existed, etc. A smart employer working within an at-will state will keep employee handbooks and policies brief. Frankly, I wouldn't want to work for a company where everything was all spelled out to the n-th degree. The more the rules and regulations the less freedoms.



TJR

 

[gary s]

....... and some just want union protection :sad:

 

[Kevin Lang]

I'd rather get a Prometheus-style punishment of being forever fired from at-will employment jobs for bogus reasons than ever, EVER work in a union-dominated workplace again. :fire:



Teamsters Union, I hope you can see this, because I'm doing it as hard as I can. :kiss_it:

The more the rules and regulations the less freedoms.

What was that old order? Freedom allows ambition which creates innovation, leading to success?

...and we wonder why union businesses are failing. :smack: