Chief Illiniwek's Last Dance

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TrainTrac

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The trustees of the University of Illinois finally gave in to P.C. pressure and NCAA financial blackmail and retired Chief Illiniwek. It was a revered and proud tradition, lasting over 80 years. He performed his last dance at last night's U of I men's basketball game. If you're an Illini fan and you didn't get a chance to see it, click the link below.



Funny how the NCAA deems Chief Illiniwek "hostile or abusive", but Notre Dame can keep their cartoonish leprechaun and Florida State can keep Chief Osceola.
 
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Another tradition down the tubes because some idiot liberals trying to shove P.C. down our throats and make us all feel guilty.
 
I hope the U of Illinois sees a significant drop in donations/financial backing, especially from alumni, because of this. I attended Marquette University, which switched from the Warriors to the Golden Eagles back in the early 90's. Since then, they haven't received a dime from me, and I know that they've lost a lot of other money from other alumni because of their decision as well. A few years ago, they lost a large donation (I forget if it was seven or eight figures) because the donor made the contribution contingent upon changing the nickname back to Warriors. They didn't even need to keep the mascot associated with American Indians--they could have used any Warrior at all. But they didn't have the cojones to do the right thing.
 
In related news, Alabama University in response to the sex-toy ban that is statewide will no longer be known as the "Fighting Vibrators"...instead, they will be known from this point on as the "Raging Lawn Jockeys!"



TJR
 
TrainTrac, you're absolutely right about the Notre Dame mascot. Why is the NCAA upset at the University of North Dakota about their "Fighting Sioux" nickname and logo, which is very similar to the Chicago Blackhawk's respectful logo--yet they're perfectly OK with Notre Dame's depiction of "Fighting Irish", complete with the red nose (i.e. drunk)?



If they require one UND to change their nickname and logo, they sure the hell better require the other UND to do the same thing...
 
What is offensive about the Notre Dame mascot. Leprechauns are not real. Native Americans are.



I am not offended by mascots. If there was a mascot that was German and was called a Kraut, so be it. I am Swiss/German and it doesn't offend me.



Looking at it that way, "Swiss Miss" could be offensive. Not everyone from Switzerland looks like Heidi, though I have a cousin named Heidi.





Tom
 
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As a Native American myself i find many teams choose to pick a powerful and meaniful objects for team names and as mascots

and many teams are cool,.. like the Seminoles and Blackhawks- nothing demeaning just a respectful was of honoring in my eyes..

There are a few that ridicule and are demeaning such as the Clevelnad Indians logo ( sort of Sambo-ish)..... Fighting Irish... I could see how that could be offensive to Irish folks but just because they choose to accept it does not make it wrong for other groups to object...

I think the PC stuff gets out of hand.. too bad





joseymack
 
Actually, I think it is just another step towards eliminating any trace of our Native American heritage. Eliminate any reference to Native Americans and they will eventually fade from our social conscience. Afterall, who wants to remember that the White man has almost eliminated an entire race from the Earth? Hitler was much less effective in his efforts than the early settlers of this nation.



Oklahoma and some of the other Southwestern states are the only places you'll find large concentrations of Native Americans. Even then, they have mixed so much with the European blood that you can't tell they even have the Native American blood.
 
Caymen--Claiming that the "leprechaun" isn't offensive because it isn't real doesn't cut it, for a number of reasons. First, the team is not called the "Notre Dame Leprechauns" or the "Notre Dame Fighting Leprechauns". They're called the "Fighting Irish", and as such, their mascot is a representation of the Irish, not of leprechauns. Secondly, their mascot takes on traits that aren't typically associated with leprechauns, but are stereotypically associated with the Irish heritage--namely, a fighting/combative demeanor, and drunkeness (via the red nose). Clearly, this mascot isn't intended as a leprechaun, but as a stereotypical/racist representation of the Irish people. Whether the mascot is real or not is irrelevant--after all, the former Atlanta Braves mascot, Chief Nockahoma (probably misspelled), wasn't real--but clearly that was offensive to many American Indians (and others who saw the racism for what it was), and rightly so.



Just curious--you claim that you would not be offended "if there was a mascot that was German and was called a Kraut." Would you still not be offended if that mascot dressed in stormtrooper garb, wore a swastika on his arm, and had a Hitler haircut/mustache? Because that is how the Notre Dame mascot comes across to many Irish people, including myself. (My last name doesn't indicate it, but nearly half of my ancestry.)



One last thing--Caymen, Josey, and Nelson, as a full-blooded Native American, I don't care for your usage of the term "Native American" to refer to American Indians. It implies that I and other people who are native to this country (and, for that matter, to this hemisphere) are not Native American, unless we happen to have American Indian ancestry, and that is not the case. Feel free to call them American Indians, Tribal Americans, specific tribe names, or any other phrase that accurately describes that group--and only that group. But "Native American" doesn't work.
 
The term "_____ American" has been bastardised to the point of being useless.



For example, what does it mean to be an "African American"....shouldn't such an Americanized person be from, or with their parents from Africa?



Or what if an "Italian American"...what does that mean? Does it simply mean at some point in one's family tree someone came from Italy, or does it simply mean you have an Italian sounding name?



For example I guess I am an "English American" since I can trace my roots to England.



Ponderous.



Can't we all just be Americans?



If you were born here, you are an American. If you parents weren't, then MAYBE lay claim the the XYZ-American title. Any further back than that and join the club or get out! ;)

 
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People need to get over it.



We all have the right to be offended and the right not to be offended. Most choose to be offended by taking things the wrong way.



Yes, you choose to be offended. I could find "cracker" offensive, but I don't cry over it. I don't demand that the crunchy snack be called something different.



People have just too much time on their hands and they look for something to call fowl on.



Sorry, but people move on ... get over your personal feelings and wake up. There are real issues in the world. While people in Africa are being hacked to death with machetes and killed, we have some over hear who make an issue over team mascots.



Stupid petty crap that doesn't make any difference if it's here or not.

 
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I'm predominently of English ancestery, some German and Swedish thrown in. I'm offended by the fact that no one seems to make fun of the English. We have feelings too; and it hurts to be excluded and ignored. The only English jokes I hear are truly funny. Why oh why can't someone offend us in the same manner as so many others feel offended. I have an idea, ban any English accents in TV and movies shown in the US. Prohibit Benny Hill reruns. Yada Yada Yada.........
 
Anglo-American here.



And this particular term has been in the dictionary a lot longer than those that have shown up recently.



And I fit TJRs definition - I'm the one that moved.



But, if asked, I'm American, by way of England.



grump
 
I really hate to see these types of things.



I am a direct descendant of Chief Thunderwater who resided in Cleveland Ohio. In fact, he is buried in Erie Street Cemetery directly across from Jacobs Field. The cemetery is protected ground by a few way, (National Historical Society, Sovereign Ground etc etc). Several have tried to buy it to turn it into a parking lot/garage.



At any rate, it is believed that Chief Wahoo, the Indians Logo was created either of his likeness or because of his support and work in the area. I have read it both ways many times, so who knows.



I am fearing for the day that the Cleveland Indians sway to the pressure and remove the logo. It will be a sad day....



Not that any of you really care, here are a few interesting sites on my Great Great Grandfather...



One f the quoted from the literature I have;

Now lying next to him, Chief Thunderwater, who worked in Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, was known as the "official Cleveland Indian" and perhaps the inspiration for Chief Wahoo.



Here is the Cemetery,

[Broken External Image]:



And his actual grave site,

(This is a new stone as the old one was deteriorating and we replaced it, the original is inside the Cleveland History Museum).

37f0b8a2cbfb2f1faee9c7ac3fd465cf.jpg
 
Bill V,



I'm not full-blooded, but have Cherokee ancestry. Good for you being 100%, but the US govt uses Native American, so that is the accepted term, until it is changed.



I don't like labels anymore than anyone else. Heck, African American is a misnomer since most people associated with that term weren't born or even have close relatives born in Africa, but until it is changed, that is what people are labeled. I had a school mate that was born in South Africa and was nearly expelled from our college, because he stated he was African-American on his college application for enrollment. He was a naturalized U.S. citizen, but was white. He had his day in court and won.



If you were born in the US, you should just say you are a US citizen. "American" is too generic, since that could apply to anyone born in North or South America.



I have never told anyone in Poland that I am an American. I tell them I am a US citizen, and that I am from Oklahoma. If someone asks my heritage, I tell them I am a mutt, because I have too many roots from different places. No labels, just the facts.
 
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