Home HVAC Systems

[Bud Williams]

Shopping for a Home HVAC systems, any advice?

3Ton system Rheem or Trane? or ???

13 SEER or 16 SEER?

Anyone have any advise?



Living in North GA 45 min north of Atlanta....



Thanks in advance...

 

[Richard L]

bud,

I would recommend you get bids from several HVAC companies to get the proper size and pricing for you home and the weather conditions in your area.



They will need to know the square footage, size of the windows, ceiling height, etc to give an accurate estimate of the size of unit you will need. They may even need to know when the house was built, and the thickness of the insulation in the ceiling/attic. The trend is to go bigger AC units so they don't work as hard. Obviously the higher SEER value the more efficient the unit will be, but you have to look at the cost difference and the payback time.



A good AC unit should last about 18-20 years and if you install a heat pump you will get about half that (10 years) because it runs in both the summer and the winter.



I don't think anyone can just make a recommendation without getting some facts about your house and the space you want to heat and cool.



...Rich

 

[EddieS'04]

Are you looking for a replacment condensor?

I have a very well insulated 1010sqft home. 2 yrs ago I installed a Payne condensor 13seer. They are made by carrier. Exact copy of carrier. With a 10yr full warranty.

$1400 installed. 3 ton unit.

 

[Scott Tanner]

Since you live in an area that is typically hot and moderate in the winter, and you'll use it a lot, I would get the highest SEER unit on the market. It'll pay back quicker... As Rich said, have it sized right... As for brand, since I work for Carrier, I would suggest any of their brands... Carrier, Bryant, Payne, Day & Night, Rheem, Tempstar. The high efficiency comes from variable speed fans and compressors with R-410a refrigerant. They control nice, as they only run as fast as needed.

 

[Richard L]

STanner,

I would get the highest SEER unit on the market. It'll pay back quicker

I have to disagree...Although a higer SEER rating will be more efficient, there is no guarantee that the higher cost will pay back sooner? Depending upon the cost of the higher SEER unit, it might even take longer to pay back the owner than the lower SEER rated unit.



The problem is that SEER does not translate to a specific or exact dollar savings. No company can or will guarantee that you will get your return on investment by any specific time frame because you have a higher rated SEER AC/Heat Pump unit.



When I purchased my first heat pump to replace my old 1976 unit at my old house, it was recommended that I get the SEER 11 rather than the SEER 12 unit because average payback time was better for the SEER 11 unit than the higher cost SEER 12 unit. Note that this was in the early 1990's and the highest SEER rating you could get then was about SEER 12.



That Heat Pump unit lasted about 12 years and I had to replace the unit with a now more affordable SEER 12 unit which was noticeably more efficient when comparing my electricity bills....:grin:



I have since sold that house and moved into a brand new home built in 2010, with much better insulation, E-Glass windowns, and will caulked and sealed and my electric bills have cut by more than half.



If your state allows you the option to pick your Electrical Service company, you can save a lot of money by simply changine to a company that offers a lower KW hour rate. When I first moved to my new house I quickly chose the same company that provided Electrical service at my old house. I was being charged between 10.5 to 13.5 cents per KW hour.



When I changed to a new Electric Service company for my second year at the new house I got a contract for 7.9 cents per KW hour...what a dramatic difference! My electric bills dropped from over $200 per month in the hear of the summer to about $175 last year when we had record setting hot weather with over 96 days in a row of 100+ temperatures.



I February of this year I renewed my service with the same Electric Service company by with a new lower rate of 7.5 cents per KW hour. It has not been as hot so far this year, but the highest electric bill I have received is only about $150 and I keep my thermostat set to 75 degrees, and I am retired so I am home most of the time. I don't have the option to turn the thermostat higher when I go to work.



My point is that you can often offset the extra cost of a higher SEER unit by simply adding additional insulation to your attic space, adding a whole house fan or attic fan, or adding higher efficiency E-glass, but only if you planned on upgrading these items anyway.



...Rich

 

[Scott Tanner]

My answer was tailored for a home in hot, steamy Atlanta. given that the unit will be used quite a lot, year round, and that it is cheaper to keep a unit running all the time, instead of turning it on when you get home, a 20 SEER unit will be the better choice in the long run. It cost more to pull a house down to temperature than it is to keep it running, even at an 80 degf setpoint when not at home. The issue is the BTU's required to get rid of the latent load (moisture) in the homes air. I agree, the payback may not be as quick as a low end unit, but they'll save way more money over the life of the unit, which should last 20 years if maintained correctly. New units are a lot different than units made 10 years ago because of the new DOE requirement, and advanced in technology. Today's state of the art units will control better, cycle less and provide contant comfort. I also assumed that the end user's house is up to snuff with quality windows and insulation. I don't know what the electric rate are in Georgia, I guess I'm used to being raked over the coals here in upstate NY at 14 cents/Kwh... plus delivery charge. A good contractor will have the software package to perform a cost analysis for payback and annual savings.

 

[Richard L]

STanner,

A good contractor will have the software package to perform a cost analysis for payback and annual savings.

That was my whole point...The fact that newer SEER units are more efficient is not the question, but it's the additional cost of the higher SEER unit vs how long the pay back time will be based on the cost of Electricity, energy efficiency of the house, and how it will be used. I don't think anyone could or should just assume that a higher SEER unit is always a better financial choice.



I do agree that it seems to be cheaper to set the thermostat at one temperature and leave it rather than trying to bring the temperature down after you get home....but I can't convince my girlfriend on that...:grin:



....Rich

 

[H D]

With my wife, somedays 78 is too cold, others 74 is too hot. That may even vary by the hour. :bwahaha:



As a current HD employee (possibly ending soon but that's another topic), I can say that they will send someone out to do a free estimate of what would suit your needs best. The only caution I will throw out there is that they will call you to the point of annoying. You don't have to visit the store and in fact, they'll just give you the 1-800 (company name) #. Not going to type the name or the number as I know for a fact they scour the interwebs for mentions of their name and employees that post about them.



I'm sure other companies offer the same free in-home estimate. I'd check Angie's List or similar sites for someone doing that. Even if you use their free estimate just to see what recommendation they have.

 

[Richard L]

Hugh,

Excellent points....You should always get multiple estimates...It will be interesting to see the variances. Before you look at the price, see if they all seem to agree on what sized unit you need...If they vary too much I would be suspicious and perhaps you should get more estimates.



If you have a group of estimates that recommend the same size unit, then you can look at brands and prices. I have often found that the guy in the middle is better than the highest or lowest bidder....but you have to be sure you are comparing apples to apples, and that there are no unwritten charges. The low bidder often tries to skip over items that will be tacked on to the bill after the work is done. The high bidder will often pad the bill to insure they make the maximum profit hoping you will not get other bids. The guy in the middle is probably more likely to have the most accurate bid.



...Rich

 

[Gavin Allan]

Lots of good advice here. Mine is:



1. Get lots of bids. Ask what they include. Ask how they determined what size they are quoting. The best contractors will do both a Manual J analysis and a Manual D analysis to determine what will work best for your house. Will they change the indoor coil and lineset? One-stage? Multi stage? Variable? What about filters? Humidifier? Thermostat? Does the ductwork need updating? Fresh air intake or heat exchanger? What are the SEER and AFUE ratings? What is the warranty? What does it cover? Parts and Labor? How long?



2. If you plan to live in the place for <5 years, go with the cheapest. If you plan to stay longer than 7 years, go for the best. The payback on the best and efficient units can be length, but well worth it. Actual home value won't vary much based on a cheapie or an expensive system, as long as it works and doesn't look old and beat up, dirty, or rusted.



3. The quality of the installation is way more important than the brand name or the quality of the unit. Best installations around here often come from contractors that do a lot of heavy-duty commercial work.



4. Brands. My preference would be in order: Rheem/Rudd, Trane/American Standard, Carrier, Lennox.

 

[Robert Caffyn]

I agree on getting several estimates from area contractors. I had a 3.5 ton Trane unit for 10 years before it crapped out. The salt in the air played havoc with the coils outside. My mechanic offered another Trane(13seer), York, Carrier and Goodman(14seer) I went with the Goodman as it was the best value(about 1/2 of the Trane) and works much better, considering its 1/2 the size of the Trane. Compressor, condenser and air handler came in at $2800 or so. The Trane was almost $6000. Money talked here and I'm very happy and had almost $3000 to spend afterwards. JMO, but get a couple estimates on different manufacturers. Most HVAC companies handle more than one brand and they can tell you which works best, has the lowest cost or the best service warranty! Bob

 

[David Clary]

Don't know a lot about this stuff but we moved to AZ a few mths back from Wa state. The elect bill was huge. Average 180 to 200 kwh a day. Didn't think the ac was working right. Had a fellow out and he added freon. Said part of our problem was the AC had never been properly charged. We put the hold temp at 80 and the electric bill tho still high is more in line with where it should be. Now averages around 100 kwh per day. The electric company has meters that they can read daily and I can access that information at their web site. This house was built in 94 and the freon level had never been correctly charged. The fellow said that I didn't have a leak because if I had there wouldn't have been any freon in the system. As I said, I don't know a lot about AC but I knew when it could not hold the set tempeture that something was wrong. Oh yea, the day time temps in our neighborhood have been over 100 since we arrived. Whew!

 

[Richard L]

itybitybob,

the day time temps in our neighborhood have been over 100 since we arrived. Whew!

Ya, but as the folks in AZ like to say: "it's a dry heat"...:bwahaha:



....Rich

 

[H D]

Yeah, when I was out in Arizona and NM in 2008, we left high 90s behind in Georgia to find 100+ temps in AZ. I didn't even sweat walking into the Grand Canyon. It's hot but it's a different hot, a more comfortable hot, if that makes sense. Kind of like the difference between nice Colorado cold and crappy NE cold. We've had a break in temperature this week but you have to push yourself through the air and I start sweating walking from my truck into work. Wouldn't trade it for northern winters, though.

 

[scott degroot]

itybtybob



You need to find a new ac tech. You most likely have a slow leak in the system. I'm in Chandler with a 1700 sq ft house with a pool and we keep the ac at 75 degrees and we average about 70kwh a day.



3 years ago we replaced our package unit with a Payne, I forget the SEER rating on it but it has noticeably lowered our electric bill while being able to keep the house cooler than we used to.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Just had our 14yo Carrier unit recharged for the first time yesterday, and it has ran almost constantly the past two months...

 

[Richard L]

Bud,

I think the real key to value in any HVAC system is not in the brand or even SEER ratings, but in the experience, and knowledge of the contractor who is doing the work. All contractors will claim that they HVAC system brand they carry are the best...because that's the brand they carry. Some will carry that brand because they can make more money, and some will do it because they have better experience and less warranty work with that brand.



Even a cheap HVAC system can perform well if a skilled HVAC contractor does the installation properly with maximum efficiency in mind.



By the same logic, an expensive HVAC system can be a very poor value if its installed by a contractor who is only interested in profit and not by doing a good installation.



A good HVAC contractor will carefully evaluate the size of your house, your insulation, the size and number of windows, and how tight your house is and size a unit that fits best for you.



Check with your neighbors and friends who may have had their HVAC sytems replaced recently and see who they used and if they would recommend them. Also, check out any contractors online and with the Better Business Bureau. Some people can never be satisfied, but too many negative reviews might indicate poor service.



....Rich

 

[Bud Williams]

thanks for all the advice...ive gotten several estimates...not yet decided on a contractor bud alot of good advice from all....