Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
It seems like McCain opened a can of worms when he made his proposal (see the link).
More on The Gas Tax Holiday
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Jimmy Lavoie
Well-Known Member
I agree with Obama. An 18 cent temporary decrease in gas prices will only mislead middle America in thinking prices are coming down when in fact, the prices will continue to increase making up the 18 cents and then, at the end of the "travel season" they'll slam us all at once.
Putting a windfall profit tax on companies that make billions in quarterly profits is ridiculous - heck, they'll just raise their prices to make up the difference - they've done it before, they'll do it again.
My 2 cents.
Putting a windfall profit tax on companies that make billions in quarterly profits is ridiculous - heck, they'll just raise their prices to make up the difference - they've done it before, they'll do it again.
My 2 cents.
TomT
Well-Known Member
I agree. It won't help solve anything. Americans need to use less gas. That's the only way prices will go down.
Paul Maurer 2
Well-Known Member
Why don't we make that a permanent cut- think of the economic stimulus and job creation from bridges falling down, not to mention the hospital care for the injured in these accidents and the new car sales to boot! Its really amazing no politician will say "we bear some responsibility for this situation, this is how markets work and we have to actually pay for it this time". I paid $100 to fill up my F-150 yesterday and drive alone 90% of the time- my choice to drive a big, inefficient truck will at some point become untenable and I will replace it or add an economy car, but for now I'm willing to pay for my decision.
Timm Hutchins
Member
While use of gas by americans will help some on prices the truth is prices will continue to be high until the dollar rebounds. that is the main reason crude "costs so much". crude is only overly expensive to the USA because our dollar isn't worth what it used to be. right now the british pound is practically 2 to 1 against the dollar and the euro is 1.5 to 1. that is the main reason crude appears higher to us. when the ratio was more 1 to 1, crude was around $55 to $60 a barrel. well in europe the cost is still around that price. this is also one of the reasons OPEC was considering changing the currency crude is traded in from US dollars to Euros earlier this year.
The declining value of the dollar is what is causing most products to become more expensive not just gasoline. we just notice it more because we see it everyday.
The declining value of the dollar is what is causing most products to become more expensive not just gasoline. we just notice it more because we see it everyday.
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
The sad fact is that gasoline prices may never go down. China and India have finally improved their economies so that now billions of people are suddenly using energy products (electricity, oil and coal). These new users will continue to increase demand for scarce resources. Oil production has reached or will soon reach it's peak, and then resources will begin to dwindle. Alternatives must be found, otherwise the energy shortage will create increased World tensions as nations struggle to meet the energy demands that fuel their economies.
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
And India is building a brand-new car for the masses priced at $2500, the idea of which is driving the greenies nuts.
We don't need to use less. We need to drill for more. Man-made climate change is a hoax.
93 octane
Jon out.
We don't need to use less. We need to drill for more. Man-made climate change is a hoax.
93 octane
Jon out.
Roger Batts
Well-Known Member
If Congress passes the fuel tax holiday, the prices won't drop. That money will just go straight to the oil companies pockets. They won't help us one bit. All Big Oil cares about is how much can they steal from consumers with their artificially inflated oil and gas prices.
Doctor CAD
Well-Known Member
Red blooded Americans playing the futures market are to blame for the price of oil.
Oil MUST come off the commodities market...
Oil MUST come off the commodities market...
Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
Yeah, it must. Why is it even on there in the first place?
Stupid wall street. All it has ever done historically is mess everything up.
Stupid wall street. All it has ever done historically is mess everything up.
The thing that really steams my butt is when the price of oil goes up on the world market, we see that price increase immediately at the pump. But when the price of oil drops on the world market like it did the other day (dropped over $3.00 a barrel), the news bradcaster always say that it will be a while before we see that drop reflected on our gas pumps???
Why do we not see it as fast as we see the price increases??? There is never any explanation for that and if there is it's all BS. The reason is because that is where the oil companies and gas station operatiors are making their record setting profits.
There is an Exxon and a Texaco station nearby that are only a few blocks away from each other. When the gas prices go up, they both go kup together, however, when the price of oil/gas goes down, the Texaco station is alwasy a few days behind the Exxon station in lowering their prices? Sometimes the Texaco station will lower the price only a few cents every few days and it may take them as long as 4 or 5 days to drop to the price of the Exxon station.
I mention that because I don't really think that it's Texaco that is doing that...It's the owner of that Texaco gas station. There are also two Shell stations on this same street and one station is always a few cents higher per gallon than the other Shell station.
....Richard
Why do we not see it as fast as we see the price increases??? There is never any explanation for that and if there is it's all BS. The reason is because that is where the oil companies and gas station operatiors are making their record setting profits.
There is an Exxon and a Texaco station nearby that are only a few blocks away from each other. When the gas prices go up, they both go kup together, however, when the price of oil/gas goes down, the Texaco station is alwasy a few days behind the Exxon station in lowering their prices? Sometimes the Texaco station will lower the price only a few cents every few days and it may take them as long as 4 or 5 days to drop to the price of the Exxon station.
I mention that because I don't really think that it's Texaco that is doing that...It's the owner of that Texaco gas station. There are also two Shell stations on this same street and one station is always a few cents higher per gallon than the other Shell station.
....Richard
Ryan Schaecher
Well-Known Member
The way I see it, good for ExxonMobile, ConocoPhillips, BPAmmaco. It's capitalism at it's finest. Find a product everybody wants, make it into a product that everybody NEEDS, make money at it.
They make less profit per dollar than McDonalds does. They make less profit per dollar than Credit Card companies do.
But the real answer is DRILL. We have all the oil we need for at least the next 20 years if we could open the spigot.
There are two problems:
1) Sierra Club, Surf Rider's Foundation, et. al. block all drilling in the places oil exists: Alaska, North/South Dakota, Montana, etc. and off the coasts.
2) We don't have any new refineries and the existing ones are expanding VERY slowly. Why? See reason #1 above.
The liberals and hippies cried and moaned over the Alaska pipeline years ago saying how the inanimate object that brings black gold down from the North Shore was going to kill all the caribou (similar to the argument that Guns kill people). Truth is that the caribou population has quadrupled in the areas that the pipeline runs in. People kill people.
Leave the oil companies alone unless there is collusion or other anti-competative practices going on. Let's see how good our economy runs if the oil companies went on strike and didn't provide fuel for just one day.
You want the gas price to settle?? Quit monkeying with the Federal Reserve rates and let the dollar stabilize. Yes, some people will be hurt by the lack of liquidity in the markets, but you know what? I don't give them much sympathy since they are the ones with $40k in credit card debt, two brand new cars (and matching payments), a 60" flat screen with Playstation 3 and a house that is 16x what they can afford.
They make less profit per dollar than McDonalds does. They make less profit per dollar than Credit Card companies do.
But the real answer is DRILL. We have all the oil we need for at least the next 20 years if we could open the spigot.
There are two problems:
1) Sierra Club, Surf Rider's Foundation, et. al. block all drilling in the places oil exists: Alaska, North/South Dakota, Montana, etc. and off the coasts.
2) We don't have any new refineries and the existing ones are expanding VERY slowly. Why? See reason #1 above.
The liberals and hippies cried and moaned over the Alaska pipeline years ago saying how the inanimate object that brings black gold down from the North Shore was going to kill all the caribou (similar to the argument that Guns kill people). Truth is that the caribou population has quadrupled in the areas that the pipeline runs in. People kill people.
Leave the oil companies alone unless there is collusion or other anti-competative practices going on. Let's see how good our economy runs if the oil companies went on strike and didn't provide fuel for just one day.
You want the gas price to settle?? Quit monkeying with the Federal Reserve rates and let the dollar stabilize. Yes, some people will be hurt by the lack of liquidity in the markets, but you know what? I don't give them much sympathy since they are the ones with $40k in credit card debt, two brand new cars (and matching payments), a 60" flat screen with Playstation 3 and a house that is 16x what they can afford.
Gypsy me
Well-Known Member
what is sad is the information I looked at this morning on the thread I just posted...take a look when you all get some time.
Gypsy me
Well-Known Member
I also read this article (from december 07 from the Dallas News) that stated Saudi is building a major refinery in Port Arthur TX! it should create alot of jobs but if they don't get more laborers/welders..they will hire from outside the US!
notice who was at the ground breaking and who was not at that time:
'
""U.S. refining capacity is very tight," said U.S. Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman, who was on hand to turn a ceremonial shovel.
"Tight supplies in a time of heightened demand lead to higher prices. It doesn't, in my opinion, have to be this way," Mr. Bodman said.
Gov. Rick Perry and U.S. Sen. John Cornyn skipped the ceremony because of schedule conflicts but sent staff. ""
I think Texeco and Shell are the same company now.
anyway here is the article from the Dallas News of December 07, I know it is past news but ..it's what is going on this very minute. ps...I guess it was a cry for new hires to work at the new refinery....
notice who was at the ground breaking and who was not at that time:
'
""U.S. refining capacity is very tight," said U.S. Secretary of Energy Samuel Bodman, who was on hand to turn a ceremonial shovel.
"Tight supplies in a time of heightened demand lead to higher prices. It doesn't, in my opinion, have to be this way," Mr. Bodman said.
Gov. Rick Perry and U.S. Sen. John Cornyn skipped the ceremony because of schedule conflicts but sent staff. ""
I think Texeco and Shell are the same company now.
anyway here is the article from the Dallas News of December 07, I know it is past news but ..it's what is going on this very minute. ps...I guess it was a cry for new hires to work at the new refinery....
Last edited by a moderator:
R. Shek,;
I can agree with you only in part. Yes we have huge oil reserves that have not been tapped yet, primarily becouse of the various environmentalist groups, however that is really only part of the problem.
If the US governement were to open up the drilling rights for all possible oil sources, and we started pumping huge quantities of oil, do you really think the oil companies would sell it cheaply? No, it would just go on the world market to be purchased by the highest bidder.
Yes, it would probably drop the price of oil on the world market, but then the oil companies would probably say that it is no longer profitable to continue to drill an pump the oil and sell it at such a low price, and would prefer to just buy the oil on the open market rather than go to all the expense of exploring, drilling and pumping the oil themselves.
As it sits right now, the oil companies are making record profits, and almost control the price of oil and the amount of gasoline they produce at will. They can close down refineries, or slow down production and they price goes up so they still make the same amount of money with less risk and cost to them.
Yes, it is Capitalism at it's best, however we have taught the world that Capitalism can be very profitable, and they have learned that lesson very quickly. We defeted the USSR in the cold war because we demonstratied that Capitalism works better than communism. Even China has turned to Capitalism tor fun and profit even though the people still live under communism. Now some of those countries plays the game better than we do.
The problem seems to be that no truely democratic country is producing any significant quantities of oil because of our envirionmental rules and our labor costs to find it and pump it out of the ground.
...Rich
I can agree with you only in part. Yes we have huge oil reserves that have not been tapped yet, primarily becouse of the various environmentalist groups, however that is really only part of the problem.
If the US governement were to open up the drilling rights for all possible oil sources, and we started pumping huge quantities of oil, do you really think the oil companies would sell it cheaply? No, it would just go on the world market to be purchased by the highest bidder.
Yes, it would probably drop the price of oil on the world market, but then the oil companies would probably say that it is no longer profitable to continue to drill an pump the oil and sell it at such a low price, and would prefer to just buy the oil on the open market rather than go to all the expense of exploring, drilling and pumping the oil themselves.
As it sits right now, the oil companies are making record profits, and almost control the price of oil and the amount of gasoline they produce at will. They can close down refineries, or slow down production and they price goes up so they still make the same amount of money with less risk and cost to them.
Yes, it is Capitalism at it's best, however we have taught the world that Capitalism can be very profitable, and they have learned that lesson very quickly. We defeted the USSR in the cold war because we demonstratied that Capitalism works better than communism. Even China has turned to Capitalism tor fun and profit even though the people still live under communism. Now some of those countries plays the game better than we do.
The problem seems to be that no truely democratic country is producing any significant quantities of oil because of our envirionmental rules and our labor costs to find it and pump it out of the ground.
...Rich
Timm Hutchins
Member
Richard, the reason you see the prices the go up but now down as drastic is because gas stations have to price on what is called "Replacement Cost". Simply put they have to charge the consumer the price it cost for them to replace the product in teh ground. When crude spikes three dollars in a day the station will now need to pay more to replace because of how futures are sold (contract prices). Since these are swapped daily the price is reflected imeediately, however the way it works for price drops is that it takes roughly 6 weeks for the price drop to be reflected because that price is reflected on the day the contract is exercised. The price you see daily on the news for crude oil is actual the price of a futures contract, not the price that it currently trades for at that exact moment in time.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/24/news/economy/gas_gouge/index.htm
Oil companies are making large profits right now because the price of their product on a global scale. Gas/Refining companies are not making very large profits. Yes, there are some companies that do both, but if you look at their financials the E&P is going well not the
R&M.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200804291029DOWJONESDJONLINE000620_FORTUNE5.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/index.htm
Crude oil by definition is a commodity and is why it is traded on the commodities exchange. All products on this market operate the same way. The next big wave everyone will start to notice is the price of corn and how that is traded. The ugly warts off ethanol are starting to come out. If you go to the finiancial site syou will see a lot of chatter this week on it.
As i said above the weak dollar is more to blame for the price of oil/gas than anything else. Whew, sorry for the long post just wanted to throw somethings out there for everyone.
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/24/news/economy/gas_gouge/index.htm
Oil companies are making large profits right now because the price of their product on a global scale. Gas/Refining companies are not making very large profits. Yes, there are some companies that do both, but if you look at their financials the E&P is going well not the
R&M.
http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200804291029DOWJONESDJONLINE000620_FORTUNE5.htm
http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/29/markets/thebuzz/index.htm
Crude oil by definition is a commodity and is why it is traded on the commodities exchange. All products on this market operate the same way. The next big wave everyone will start to notice is the price of corn and how that is traded. The ugly warts off ethanol are starting to come out. If you go to the finiancial site syou will see a lot of chatter this week on it.
As i said above the weak dollar is more to blame for the price of oil/gas than anything else. Whew, sorry for the long post just wanted to throw somethings out there for everyone.
