New brakes

[Craig Martin 2]

K I installed new brakes and they are squealing bad but only when they get warm. They are the napa brand ceramics. It seems like its only coming from the driver side front. I've had that side off a couple times and rebuilt it as well but it still sequels bad. The rotors are brand new as well as the pads all round. Any ideas on what I can do to fix them? Other then replacing them with new pads that is.

 

[Mark Stadnicki]

I had a bad squeal on the back brakes with good pads and rotors. Took them apart last night cleaned everything with brake cleaner, wire brushed slides, lubed contact points and put disc quiet compound between piston and pads. Squeal all gone.

 

[Richard L]

Kegger,

Brake squeal is caused by brake pad vibrations. The pads have contact points on the calipers that creates a dry, stick-n-slip, metal to metal contact that amplifies the noise through the calipers....much like a squeaky door hinge



Most quality brake pads will come with self-stick isolation pads (installed or you may have to install them) These isolation are a soft, thin alloy, or composite material that prevents the metal to metal contact squeal. If your NAPA pads did not come with these Isolation pads (also called Slippers) then you need to coat the back of the pads with a special high temperature silicone based RTV specially made for brakes or high temp use.



Next, you must make sure that the caliper sliding pins are cleaned and lubed with high temperature brake grease.



Finally, you need to use the high temperature grease on the little metal tabs on the brake pads where they contact the caliper or caliper frame. This is where the pads hang and slide in and out on the calipers during braking. Also, make sure that there are no burrs on the brake pad tabs or on the surface where they slide or that can set up a stick-n-slip scenario which causes the squeaks.



...Rich

 

[scott degroot]

Heres what gets me about all these tricks to eliminate brake pad squeal. You see everyone say to grease this and that and that is all well as everyone has their own tricks but when was the last time you have ever seen these points greased from the factory? I especially am confused about putting something on the back of the pads or where the pads sit in the adaptor. I see a ton of vehicles where someone has applied their favorite goop to the back of the pads but amazingly when you pull the brakes apart everything they put on has been squeezed out by the force of the brakes. Lubing the contact points where the pads sit and slide in the adaptor is another one, all this usually does is lead to dirt buildup and eventually sticking brake pads. The only time I have ever seen anything put on a brake pad from the factory is on some cars they use a moly paste between the multiple shim stack on the back of the pad.



After 24+ years of turning wrenches professionally I can say that I don't have a problem with brake squeal. The use of quality parts is the key, if your buying rotors and one rotor is $25 and the other is $75 you better ask yourself why, same thing goes for brake pads.

 

[Richard L]

l1tech,

I must disagree. I have over 40 years experience with brakes in both the US and in Europe long before the US adapted Disc Brakes as standard equipment on most vehicles.



Quality parts do help, but the factory is installing all new parts, and frankly they probably have a projected lifespan so that the customer will return to the factory authorized dealerships for servicing.



The brake pad contact points on the calipers are subject to rust, wear, nicks and burrs that cause stick-n-slip, metal to metal contact which caused the pads to vibrate.



Why spend $75 for a new brake rotor when 25 cents worth of brake grease at the appropriate points will solve the squealing problem??



In over 40 years, I have never encounter brakes sticking because of dirt build up! Sticking brakes are caused by hydraulic problems like pistons sticking because of pitting and corrosion on the piston or piston bores, or they are caused by knicks or burrs on the sliding parts of the caliper or mounting pins that prevent proper movement of these parts.



One of the biggest problems with the early Sport Trac's was squeaking brakes from the factory, so that would negate any claim of quality parts being the only cure for brake squeal. Unlike the dealership mechanic, the factory's goal is primarily maximun production and to save money on parts and labor. You sound like Ford...They want to ignore the problem exist and blame everyone else including the customer instead of spending 25 cents per vehicle to put a dab of grease on the moving brake parts that cause the squealing.



Quality brake pad manufacturers would not spend the extra money to provide Isolation pads for their brake pads if they were not needed and most quality brake pads come with isolation pads. Companies that manufacture brake grease and High Temp slicone for brakes would not be making these items if there were not any demand. Squealing brakes has always been a problem for many decades now and it does not matter if the brakes are factory installed or aftermarket.



Most repair manuals recommend the use of small dabs of brake grease on the pad tabs and sliding parts of the brake system. For nearly 40 years these manuals even recommended using dabs of brake greas on the backing plate where the shoes contact the backing plate on drum brakes.



The use of brake grease has been shown to be an inexpensive yet effective way to reduce or eliminate brake squeal without compromising brake life or stopping power and is accepted by the vast majority of mechanics who are not just out to sell more parts.



...Rich

 

[Craig Martin 2]

Guys I've done dozens of brake jobs on all the cars I have owned....now I'm no expert but I think (or I thought) I knew what I was doing lol. I have taken the front end apart sanded any and I mean any burs from the pads, taken the rotors off and made sure they were good (they are not the cheap ebay type and brand new) There are the shims/slidders in place and well lubed as well.



I'm stumped and so is my brother who is a ford mechanic. His only suggestion was to buy different pads and see if they are "softer".

 

[Richard L]

Kegger,

Where the new rotors replace with the new pads or where they turned when the new pads were installed? It is often a good idea to have the rotors blanchard ground to remove any directional grain from the rotors that can cause chatter and squealing. Also, it helps to insure the front and rear edges of the friction material is beveled to prevent chatter and excessive vibration of the pads.



You said you inspected and removed any burrs from the the pads, but with new pads there are rarely any burrs there...the burrs, rust, nicks etc that can cause pads stick-n-squeak conditions is where the pads contact the slide on the calipers...be sure that there is not rust, burrs or bad nicks because that can prevent smooth sliding of the brake pads...then add a dabe of brake grease to insure.



Let us know how you make out with resolving your brake squeal problem.



...Rich

 

[scott degroot]

Richard,



I know you must disagree with me...you usually do :grin: but thats cool. Like I said everyone has their own methods and thoughts on the subject and what works for you with good results has never worked for me and vice versa I assume.



Kegger,



Have you had a close look at the caliper pistons? Are the face of them flat and clean and are they tight in the bore? Alot of people often overlook this.

 

[Richard L]

l1tech,

I don't always disagree with you...I have a great deal of respect for your skill and experience, but I will disagree when you give answer that is not helpful or not explained. Telling someone to buy better quality parts is not much help since squealing brakes has always been a problem for OEM and aftermarket parts and not just a problem associated with the price paid for the parts.



You never told Kegger what you think is causing the squealing, and why buying higher quality parts eliminates brake squeal??? You don't even know what brand or price Kegger paid for his new rotors.... Did you just assumed they were cheap when you said:

if your buying rotors and one rotor is $25 and the other is $75 you better ask yourself why, same thing goes for brake pads.

So, are you saying that the brake squeal is coming from Kegger's wallet where the cash he saved is rubbing together and making that squealing noise? :grin:



...Rich

 

[scott degroot]

Richard,



I never meant to imply that Kegger had purchased cheap parts I simply made a statement that if the cost of brand x vs brand y is dramatically different you may want to ask yourself why, I do it all the time when sourcing parts.



Why do higher quality parts help eliminate problems? Does that really need an answer?



I don't know what is causing Keggers brake squeal as I am not there to actually see it. What he may think looks absolutely normal may look bad to me, that is what makes it almost impossible to diagnose vehicles over the internet.

 

[EddieS'04]

almost impossible to diagnose vehicles over the internet.

Amen to that....LOL...all we can do is try....:driving:

 

[Richard L]

l1techm

Again, your second answer is not really an answer to Kegger's brake squeal problem. Why jump in with your "Quality Parts" statement without offering a solution? Your comment was to claim that using brake grease or isolation pads, etc was ineffective. Yes, everyone may have a solution that works for them, but more people use a little properly placed dab of brake grease to silence brake squeal.



My point was that even when using the highest quality parts, one can still have brake squeal (and many still do) simply due to wear, corrosion and the design of the brake system. Instead of throwing a lot of time an money at something you will not always solve with newer more expensive parts, just placing a little dab of brake grease where there is metal to metal contact and the problem is solved. This has been the standard cure for squealing brakes form many years now...Why the factory does not use brake grease is not really the point because brake squeal is not an issue at the factory, but is an issue for the customers



...Rich

 

[JohnnyB]

Cant we all agree to disagree? And get on with the subject at hand?



Kegger's brake squeal ... anyone ... anyone...

 

[scott degroot]

Kegger,



Did the Napa pads come with new sliders for the pads to ride on? Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. If not get a front hardware kit and replace them. The sliders are designed to hold the pads tight and provide a smooth surface for the pads to ride on and they do wear even though they may not look like it.



On a side note we have been trying the Napa ceramic pads at my shop. I'm not really happy with the shims that come on the back of the pads and have had a couple sets that I have had to take a file to in order to make them fit correctly in the adaptor.