Performance brakes

[Evan Lipinski]

hi im looking to upgrade my brakes, i was looking at ebc slotted rotors but i just cannot decide on pads. I was looking a ebc yellow-stuff since they are a powerful biting pad but people say they sequel a lot, and the Wagner thermoquiets pads for the rear.

Any one have recommendations on good powerful biting pads for the front, i have auto zone ceramic pads now but i really feel like they don't stop well.

 

[Richard L]

Evan,

Brake pad material does not cause brake squeal, so the type of friction material used makes no difference. Brake squeal noise is caused by metal on metal vibration where the pad's metal backing plate contacts parts of the metal caliper or the sliding pins.



To prevent brake squeal, be sure to install slippers/isolators to the back of the pads (better brake pads have them) and use high temperature brake grease to the caliper sliding pins and where ever the metal backing plates of the pads contact the caliper...epecially the little ears on the front and back of the pads which is where the pads hang and slide on. Also, be sure there are no burrs or dings that may prevent the pads from sliding smoothly....file them smooth if necessary and use plenty of brake grease.



It's also advisable to chamfer the leading and trailing edges of the friction material with a file or coarse sand paper just to prevent the edge from catching and causing the brake pad to chatter excessively since it is vibrations that basic cause of the squealing.





...Rich

 

[Evan Lipinski]

do you have any experience with yellowstuff pads? Or do you have any pad recomendations to go with ebc slotted rotors.

thanks

 

[Robert Caffyn]

Evan, there is no benefit to the slotted or drilled rotors. Other than the "cool factor". Those rotors go through pads probably 50% faster than stock. Stock rotors with the Wagners, front and rear, are my reccomendation. You know Hawk, EBC and several others make high perf. pads, but unless you're always into a high speed, hard braking for a corner, stick with what works. I think in a previous thread, Eddie said "I use a carbon metallic pad that stops great after it heats up". This is true, but what about a sudden stop while the brakes are cool? Stock works best on our vehicles. Bob

 

[Richard L]

Evan,

Bob C makes a good point Things that work well on race cars do not necessarily translate to better for the street.



Even if you are a spirited driver, you probably will not gain much if anything by switching over to high performance brake pads and rotors. Race cars are nearly rebuilt between races and stopping power is much more important that replacing the brake pads after every race or two. Your brakes are not likely to get hot enough during normal street driving to require slotted and drilled rotors and they increase the wear factor.



If you are worried about warped rotors, it has nothing to do with the rotors actually getting warped. Standard road cars use brakes that function mostly by abrasion, or the breaking down of the bonds between the pad material molecules by the friction generated by pushing the pads against the rotors. Under normal city conditions, the worn-away pad material is simply carried away as brake dust (the black dust commonly seen on wheels). However, under heavier braking, such as an emergency stop or slowing down from a highway exit, the brakes become much hotter, and that material can actually 'cook' to the brake rotors



If you do some hard high speed braking, like exiting a freeway and then you come to a stop and hold your foot heavy on the brake pedal, the hot rotors can cause some of the brake material bonding material to stick on the rotors. This creates a thick spot on the rotor where the pads contacted the rotor while the vehicle was stopped. That slightly thick spot is what causes the pads to pulse and the front end to shutter.



The edges of slotted rotors are designed to help scrape away the soft, hot friction material to avoid it from being deposited on the rotors. That also needlessly increases the friction material wear. That does not help you in stop and go driving or if you get your brakes hot and then stop at a traffic light. The rotors are not turning but the hot friction material is being deposited in one spot on the rotor and that's what creates the so-called Warped rotor.



...Rich

 

[EddieS'04]

Bob I should have only said, the PF pads never heat fade. They do stop as well as OEM when cold.

It is during perfomance driving they just get better and better. I havent been able to make them fade. On OEM rotors and a 5000lb truck.

It only takes about a mile and 2 stops from 30mph. They start the super grab, that no other pad I have used ever did. If I have to lockup from driveway to the end of the block. As I said, stoping power is not hindered when cold.



I had heat fade problems on my '94 stang. With various pads. I wish I had known about performace friction, carbon metalic pads.

I will use them again. If you can deal with the dust. I recomend them for a performance upgrade. On oem type rotors.



Anyway, Ditto on the info you and Rich said...

 

[scott degroot]

Why doesn't anyone ever talk about tires when they want to "upgrade" their brakes. The best brakes in the world are useless if you don't have tires that can grip the road and therefore not skid when you slam on the brakes.

 

[chargedtrac]

excellent point l1tech.



traction, temp and treadwear ratings, tire compounds (performance v. all-season v. winter tires), tread designs... i've had my share of analysis paralysis when tire purchase time arrives.



I agree with Bob and Rich's thoughts on brakes, especially for an ST.

 

[Evan Lipinski]

right now i have duralast ceramic pads and feel like the braking isnt that great at all, the pads have good life but just don't grab well. Would a different ceramic pad be any different like Wagner pads.

But then it is which thermo quiet pad the semi metalic or the ceramic?

 

[scott degroot]

Duralast pads...theres your problem. Personally I like Akebono pads if you are going to use something other than OEM but be prepared to pay more for them. On the vehicles that I have put Akebono pads on there is a definite improved initail bite and the overall feel of the brakes is much improved. As far as rotors go I honestly don't think you are going to do much better than Motorcraft rotors, don't buy into all the crossdrilled and slotted hype for a street vehicle unless it is strictly looks that you are going for. Also PBR..that doesn't stand for Pabst Blue Ribbon...rotors have been working for me pretty well. Alot of people here like the Wagner stuff, I can't remember the last time I have installed anything Wagner and don't know any professional mechanics who have and none of my parts houses that I deal with even list Wagner.

 

[Richard L]

l1tech,

Good point about tires. But just like brakes, tires are a compromise. What works great on a race track may not be practical on the street.



Most race cars use slick/no tread tires with soft rubber compounds for maximum traction and braking power. The softer rubber helps grip and the lack of tread puts more rubber on the road. The problem is that combination does not work well on the street especially when the road gets wet....then you have little or no traction....and the soft rubber compound wears quickly.



To compromise, we need street tires to have harder rubber for long tread life, and deep treaded tires to get the water out from under the tread to prevent hydro-planeing for better wet weather traction. You can buy performance tires that offer softer rubber compounds that will improve traction and braking, but most people object to the short tread life.



Some so-called rain tires tend to put soft rubber just on the outer 1/8" layer of the tread...this gives good wet weather traction initially, but after about 10K miles the soft rubber has worn off. Now your are driving on the harder rubber for better mileage, but your wet weather traction has been reduced dramatically. This is something that I noticed on some high mileage Michellin's I have owned.



So everything about cars including brakes and tires is a compromise and overall operating cost is always part of the equation.



...Rich

 

[Evan Lipinski]

l1tech,

What akebono pads did you use? I do like the ebc slotted rotors for looks and because they wont rust up on the inner surfaces, price for brakes is no issue i will pay whatever for good brakes. Would the wagner thermo quite ceramic be an imprvement over the duralast ceramic?

 

[scott degroot]

When I use Akebono pads they are the Ultra Premium ones. As far as Duralast vs Wagners I would go with the Wagners. Now keep in mind that I do not use Wagners and don't really have any experience with them but Duralast products are just an Auto Zone house brand that are cheaply made.

 

[Evan Lipinski]

that's true, i suppose ebc greenstuff 7000 wouldn't be a bad pad either.

I was looking to have stainless steel lines made when i do the brakes, does any one make them or are they just custom order for the st.

 

[EddieS'04]

Duralast products are just an Auto Zone house brand that are cheaply made.

Very true. I wont use any duralast brake products.

 

[Robert Caffyn]

Evan, if you are really serious about better brakes. Go to the link below and check out the "big brake" kit from Ford. These are fronts only and are made for the GT500. They will fit your truck, but you may need new rims to clear the calipers. "Supercharged SVT" has put these on his truck and they work very well. So its stock with upgraded pads or go for it if you really want to stop on a dime!. Bob

 

[Evan Lipinski]

That kit would be great but it defiantly wont works with my stock wheels, so i guess im just going to find the best combo of pads and rotors.