Really BAD grinding noise from ??

[Doug Menkhaus]

HI, newbie here, found your site EXCELLENT! I apologize in advance if I should've posted somewhere else, but it looks as though this site is the most informative



, and, just saw that the last Sporttrac was produced last month! :cry: I did not know the Ford had decided to end the run...sad..



So, quickly, my story. We bought our 2002 Sport Trac from a local dealer in early '03 ("last one on the lot") and have loved it ever since. I originally drove it a lot for work, 90% highway miles, long runs, from Cincinnati to Detroit. Later, in 2006, we bought a smaller car, as I was really racking up the miles, and I wanter better MPG. I kept the ST though, as I have a 1922 Ford Model T that needs to be towed around periodically, and the econo-box doesn't do well in the snow, so we kept the ST. Now, I have ~90,000 miles on it. There have been times over the past few years that I have not driven the ST for upwards of a month, but it has always started right up, (It still has the original battery in it!) and taken me where I had to go. I have regualr maintainence done on it, and fix what I can (brakes, etc) when needed. The only thing I've ever had to do is replace the transmission cooler lines to the radiator as they rusted out up in front.



Drove the car last week. Now, when I first start up the car, and back it down my slightly inclined driveway, the rear brakes are 'touchy'. They tend to grab easily, for the first mile or so. I attributed that rust buildup on the rear brakes, since the car can sit for a while at times. Last week however, the rear brakes were super grabby, as they actually seemed to lock up when backing out of my driveway. I thought, "WOW, really really touchy today". Few quick brake jab on the way down, and it seemed better.



Just a few hundred feet up my street though, I have this horrible grinding noise, like bare metal-to-metal grinding, like the brake are totally gone. Problem is, the noise doesn't change at all when applying the brakes? It is definitly a rotational issue, as it doesn't happen when the car is not moving. Turned around went home, got the other car.



I began to surmise the problem might be in the rear brakes, as I haven't had them apart in years, and the fact they were super touchy is an indication right? (but why didn't the noise change when I applied the brakes?) I decided to get it up on jacks this weekend and see.



I replaced the rear shoes with new, and cleaned everything out, but didn't notice anything that would tell me they were bad. The touchiness was gone, but after a short test drive, the metal-to-metal grinding was still present. Darn.



I'm ruling out front brakes (though I can still check it out) as the noise doesn't change at all when braking, and I would think Front disk brakes would defintily change when applied.



I've seen other websites that talk about rear axles ring anf pinion, wheel bearings, etc. It "SEEMS" to come from the front, but I can't tell. 4 wheel drive still works.



Thoughts? (Again, I apologize if I'm on the wrong site. This is a definite metal to metal scraping noise, that seems to start above 5 mph, and gets worse as I go. I haven't driven more than 2 miles since it started, and it started very suddenly. Thanks again,



Doogie

 

[George T]

No you are definetly on the right site. Welcome by the way:welcome:



Someone might have a better answer for you. Just give till tomorrow afternoon. To me it sounds like the brake dust shield or whatever it is called. Thats behind the rotor. It could have gotten bent when everything was being reisntalled. And now it is grinding against the rotor.



Had this happen on my 2004 ST and my girlfriends civic.



Thats my guess considering the noise doesnt change when you press the brakes.

Wish I knew what that piece was called, but I think it the brake dust cover or shield. Something like that. It might be it, or I might be completely off.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Before anyone can diagnose what the issue is, you need to pull the front off and check both sides. It could be just rust build-up. Leaving a vehicle sit for extended periods of time is not good for it.



Pull everything apart and look. It could also be bad wheel bearings.





Tom

 

[Brian Lee]

Mine did something similar awhile back. I had a rock hung up on the dust shield where i wasn't that visible. Once i got the rock out it was back to normal.

 

[Art Garcia]

welcome to the site. you will greatly enjoy being a member as you will find helpful suggestions from experience ST owners. you are also able to find great deals on parts you might need or are interested in. Overall, its a perfect site for a Sport Trac driver. back to your question, my moms 00 accord had the same issue, sounded like metal to metal grinding and got worse as you increased speed. but her brakes never felt touchy like you described. hopefully we can all suggest ideas to eliminate other options and help you figure out the real problem. once again welcome:welcome:

 

[Bill Koonce]

Welcome! :welcome:



I'm a seasonal driver (summer car, winter car), so I'm accustomed to rotor rust and other storage related problems. Your problem does seem far more extreme than the worst rusting that I've ever encountered.



My half-baked suggestion is to inspect the brake pistons for leakage and other odd-looking stuff. You might find a damaged seal, which has let in debris that's causing the piston to stick. Or the piston itself may have become deformed (usually by a bad brake job), keeping it from moving freely.



You'll need to remove the caliper and pads to see the piston working. This is a good time to examine the pads and rotors (or shoes and drums) for abnormal wear. BE SURE TO USE A C-CLAMP AND A BLOCK OF WOOD TO KEEP THE PISTON FROM POPPING OUT COMPLETELY! Look for pistons that don't come straight out, and don't retract easily. As a rule of thumb, if it looks wrong (torn seal, galling and/or improper movement of the piston, uneven pad wear etc.) it probably needs to be replaced.



OTOH it might be some strange ABS problem...good luck!

 

[Doug Menkhaus]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll have an opportunity tonight to tear apart the front brakes and am keeping my fingers crossed. It is a metal-to-metal noise, like a front brake pad that's down to the metal (brakes aren't that old), but louder, and the noise doesn't change at all when I apply the brakes, which I would expect on a set that's shot. The only time the noise changes is when I (a) go faster, it's faster, and (b) when I go over a large enough dip in the road to bounce the car, the noise can stop for a split second that the truck bounces back up, as if a load on an axle/bearing/?? were being let up, but then comes right back as soon as the truck settles back down.



All fours shocks are shot I've noticed, even the crome on the shock shafts have rusted, so they apparently are in need of replacement. The ABS light came on years ago, I just haven't driven it enough in the last 3~4 years, mostly to tow the Model T or when it snows outside. and it never let me down. The Check Engine light has been on also, and my code scanner points to the EGR valve. I'll have to take it to the dealer for those things (and the cruise control switch recall..I know, I know...little late on that one



I'm really hoping it's the front brakes, in which case I'm prepared to rebuilt them, calipers, rotors, pads, even the hardware...that I can do. But I think I put brakes on it about 12K miles ago..(2 years?). Maybe I'm lucky and they just fell apart out of boredom! :bwahaha:

 

[Bill Koonce]

It's somewhat possible that those ABS and MIL lights are telling you something... /jes' sayin'

 

[Doug Menkhaus]

Mustang Guy, you hit the nail on the head. They are all saying "TAKE ME TO THE DEALER FOR SOME FRIGGIN MAINTAINENCE ALLREADY WILL YA?! :angry:"



Pulled the left side apart. Brakes are all rusty, worn about 1/2 way or more through. Inner pad is delamininating from the backer plate, and by the time I got it off, it was completely delaminated (came off in 1 piece!) Calipers are fine, could almost push them back in by hand, but used a C-Clamp and board.. Think I'll leave it up on jack stands, and R&R everything tomorrow, but not before I disconnect the battery (still haven't gotten that Cruise control switch recall done!)



On to the right side, and peeked through the wheel. Funny, the outer pad doesn't contact the whole rotor. Only the center, not the outer or inner circle. That's wierd. Also, they are some shiny marks on the outside of the rotor, in the rusty area. What is that? IS the rotor back and hitting something?



Go to take the wheel off...man those lugs are tight, my impact wrench won't do it. Grab the top of the tire to lift myself up..and what's this? The tire moved. Huh. Grab the top and botton and pull in and out. The wheel is moving! Uh oh. That ain't good. Craw around to the inside of the tire, and pull the tire in and out. Ball joint is rock solid, I can see the axle moving up and down.



Wheel bearings here we come! :banana:



So, I put the left side back together, delaminated pad and all, and move it outside. I'll call AAA in the morning and have them tow it to the dealer (about 10 miles). It needs the recall done, the EGR valve, ABS fixed, etc...It's time to take it in.



If it was 74 and sunny in the middle of summer and I had a week of vacation sitting around, I would tackle it, but it's snowing, cold and I need it sooner rather than later..so I'll just have them do it.



Any thoughts on a complete front end brake job (cost) and any thought on the wheel bearing?



Thanks!



Doogie

 

[Bill Koonce]

Costs can vary. You can go anywhere from "junkyard replacement parts where needed" to a complete new aftermarket kit. Considering the amount of bad things you're finding (and how important the front brakes are), I'd bite the bullet, spend the money and do a full symmetrical (if the part needs replacement on one side, replace the other side too) NOS or aftermarket replacement.



If you have a few grand to spare, you can upgrade with complete kits from Baer, Wilwood etc. A more realistic shopping list would include a fresh pair of Motorcraft calipers, EBC rotors and pads, braided steel brake lines and plenty of DOT4 fluid to flush the entire system until it's completely clean.



EBC and others offer various levels of performance parts, but the OEM style rotors cost no more than a pair of junkyard rotors and resurfacing (a botched resurfacing job might be responsible for that strange contact pattern) and are brand new and ready to install.



Don't skimp on pads no matter what! EBC Redstuff, or another respected manufacturer's high-end pads are well worth the extra $50 that you might spend.



I'd estimate a little over $500 for a complete front brake set. You probably won't get any money back for cores, considering their condition. You can do the work yourself. If the calipers are really fine, then you save a couple hundred, but I'd have a certified shop look them over to be safe.

 

[Steve McKellop]

Top line Bendix or Wagner pads/shoes are as good as any, don't judge quality by overpriced parts. The Ford dealer here doesn't even stock Ford brake pads. They had to order them when they warrantied them on my 08 E250....twice! The BCA or Timken hub/bearings, in whatever box, are as good as it gets.



If your rear brakes seem to drag, especially after you've replaced all you have, remove/examine the flex line from the steel one on the frame to the rear end housing tee. The inner lining of the hoses can deteriorate and block fluid from returning, thus holding some pressure on the wheel cylinders. Heat marks/excessive wear would have been an indicator of that on your old rear shoes and drums.



I'm sure glad I don't have to deal with the rust problems like you guys do up north!!



UNPLUG that cruise switch until you get the recall done. Sport Tracs don't seem to burn as often as F150/Expeditions do but I wouldn't risk it. You can't go to a salvage sale without seeing at least a couple F150/Exp's with a cooked cowl.

 

[Doug Menkhaus]

Thanks, Dealer called me back today...



scraping noise is Front right wheel hub ~450

Brakes in front compete ~450

Check engine light on for EGR Valve sensor (not EGR Valve itself) I think he said $180?

ABS light on for rear axle sensor ($90) and get this, ABS controller ($800)

Whistle noise when cold is Air Idle Speed Control, another $160?





It's about $1900 total (labor, tax, everything), I said go ahead. ABS hasn't worked in YEARS, Check Engine light on for 2 years. Almost half of it is the darn controller



Doogie

 

[Doug Menkhaus]

Total's are in:

Right Front Wheel Bearing R&R Parts $261.22, Labor $93.60 Total $354.82

Front Brakes: Pads $49.95, Rotors $223.94, Nut $9.46, Labor $95.00, Total $378.35

Idle Air Control (Whistle noise at extreme cold temps) Parts $140.39, Labor $39.00 Total $179.39

ABS light on , ECU Internal Failure and Rear Wheel Speed Sensor Signal Missing:

AB Sensort Assembly (Rear Axle) $55.35

AC Control Assembly $609.98

Core Charge $100.00

Minus Core Charge -$100.00

Labor $130.50

Total $795.83

Check Engine Light On,

egr INSIFFCIENT flow REPLACED dpfe, cleared Coe, Roadtested OK.

Replace AA Sensor ASY, Parts $72.58, Labor $103.00 Total $175.58

Shop Supplies $15.00

Total was $1999.62



I drove home today for the first time in YEARS without a CHECK ENGINE light or ABS light on,..It;s supposed to snow here tomorrow, maybe I'll get a change to try out the "new" anti-lock brakes! :driving:



Doogie



Thanks everyone!

 

[candiver]

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll have an opportunity tonight to tear apart the front brakes and am keeping my fingers crossed. It is a metal-to-metal noise, like a front brake pad that's down to the metal (brakes aren't that old), but louder, and the noise doesn't change at all when I apply the brakes, which I would expect on a set that's shot. The only time the noise changes is when I (a) go faster, it's faster, and (b) when I go over a large enough dip in the road to bounce the car, the noise can stop for a split second that the truck bounces back up, as if a load on an axle/bearing/?? were being let up, but then comes right back as soon as the truck settles back down.



All fours shocks are shot I've noticed, even the crome on the shock shafts have rusted, so they apparently are in need of replacement. The ABS light came on years ago, I just haven't driven it enough in the last 3~4 years, mostly to tow the Model T or when it snows outside. and it never let me down. The Check Engine light has been on also, and my code scanner points to the EGR valve. I'll have to take it to the dealer for those things (and the cruise control switch recall..I know, I know...little late on that one



I'm really hoping it's the front brakes, in which case I'm prepared to rebuilt them, calipers, rotors, pads, even the hardware...that I can do. But I think I put brakes on it about 12K miles ago..(2 years?). Maybe I'm lucky and they just fell apart out of boredom! :bwahaha:

If you have a bad wheel bearing, it can cause the hub to rotate off center, and this will move the ABS tone ring either away from, or closer to the ABS wheel sensor. When that happens, it will throw an ABS code causing the light to come on. You may also notice irregularities in your steering.