Should I trust my dealer service center?

[Thomas Rogers]

I would like the opinions of you trusted members on a dealer service experience.



Some background: When I purchased my 2007 Ford Focus new from the dealer I got the extended warranty because extending to 75K/5 years was mucho cheap when I bought the car (around $100).



Well, I am nearing both the 5 year and the 75k mark and a few things have come up. The airbag light was coming on and I needed a new clockspring. This was intermittent. Also, the trunk release was dodgy (sometimes making a rapid vibrating clicking sound). The latter item was fixed once before under the original 3/36k warranty. Seems to be a fragile part.



Anyways, I took the vehicle in to the dealer to have both those things done. First thing was that I found out I had a deductible (essentially a co-pay...lol) for the extended warranty. That was news to me and not highlighted when I purchased the warranty (a Ford warranty). $100 out-of-pocket to fix both things. Not too bad...better than the alternative.



But, here is the kicker...



A month after the service my "eBrake/Brake Warning Info" light started to come on and off randomly while driving. Thought maybe the sensor was shoddy thinking the eBrake was still on. But it is also the dummy light for signaling to the operator brake issues and the owners manual indicates to take the vehicle in for service immediately.



Well, I scheduled service the next Monday (it was a Friday). But, I figured I would try to diagnose the problem myself, looking for anything.



First thing I found was that the cap to the brake fluid reservoir was loose...actually barely on.



Next thing I noticed was that the level of the brake fluid was below the "min" line of the reservoir. Hhhmm...



Well, I got some DOT 3 brake fluid (per the specs) and topped off the reservoir, put the cap back on TIGHTLY, and the problem went away. That was 3 weeks ago. No light since. I cancelled the service appt that very same day.



So, my question to you all?



Should I trust my dealer service center? I ask this because they provide a nice service in which anytime you take your vehicle in they check all fluids, tire pressure, tire wear, brake wear, etc, and give a nice report.



My suspicion is that when doing that inspection, the service tech didn't secure the cap to the brake fluid reservoir. For almost 5 years, no problems. A few weeks after a service appt, problems.



If I were NOT a trusting man, I might think they did this on purpose, knowing it might lead to an issue and another service call. But, I want to give them the benefit of the doubt.



So, trust, or no trust!



TJR

 

[Jerry Gerner 2]

It depends on the dealer, primarily the service dept.. I know for a fact that here in Pa. alot of dealers will in fact sabotage a vehicle for future maintenance needed specifically to be done at a dealer. I know this because I know alot of good mechanics that work at different dealers and have reported it to the B.B.B. only to find out the next dealer the work for does the same thing. In Pa. We have annual inspectionsans emissions which can get extremely expensive if taken to a shyster that adds on unnecessary work or does something to the vehicle that can't be traced back to them, (normal wear and tear) caused it they say. Don't get me wrong there are plenty of quality shops/ dealerships out there but the economy is tanking and businesses need to drum up more business. I'm extremely picky on who actually works on my vehicles, usually I do all the work, have my certified friends do the work I can't and take it to a shop for inspection/emission that I know the guy working on it. :banana:

 

[Carey Frennier]

Sounds like an isolated incident to me. Dealerships that scam don't stay in business. Especially a franchise dealer.



Once in a great while, we hear about a local dealership forgetting to put oil in a vehicle during an oil change. Once in a great while, we hear about a set of lugs that didn't get torqued down correctly. Just like sometimes people forget to put their gas cap back on....same sort of thing. We're only human and sometimes things get missed. It's very very rare. In the 4-5 years I've been working for the Durocher dealership chain....there has not been one issue like this or anything that smells of sabotage.



Actually, we hired a new tech a few weeks ago and be buttoned up a car after an oil change and forgot to put oil back in it. All the techs sign off on each other's work all the time. A senior tech saw that the oil had not been signed out of inventory and checked the stick. Problem was caught before it was really a problem. This guy got written up and a drug test as a result. Two more write ups within his probational period and they will terminate him.



So the vehicle didn't even get started or run at all without oil and the new tech will not forget again!

 

[Dreman]

I've had dealerships that tried to sell me additional service based on a "new" service schedule supposedly put out by Ford. I told him I know where to find the service schedule on the Ford website, and would he like to compare his "new" service schedule with the one from Ford today? He danced around that one for a few minutes, basically saying "no". I've found tools left under the hood from a dealership mechanic that apparently couldn't clean up after himself. Thank God he was only replacing the battery! I've tightened loose lug nuts that a tire store (no longer in business) left loose when they put two new tires on for me. I've also had to fix the damage from the next door neighbor's car when I redid her brakes and forgot to tighten the lug nuts on one wheel. Now I check my own work two and three times. And I resist working on other people's cars!



Things happen. People try to get away with things. But I've never had anyone actively sabotage my car to try to get me to bring it back in for service.

 

[Bo Loo]

The Today Show recently did an investigation and found that out of Dealers vs. Independant shops, the dealers were most likely to try and charge you for extra work you don't need.

 

[Todd Z]

Probably just the person working on it...... Or did any one like a fast lube do the oil change recently???



I only have a few places i trust to even touch my cars, but even then they know i will pop the hood in the parking lot and double check the work....



So I say trust them, But double check it when you pick it up !!!



Todd Z

 

[Richard L]

TJR,

Kind of a difficult call for someone who has not experience your service at the dealer first hand.



Since you posted this question here, it sounds like you have some doubts about the dealers service...even if leaving the cap on the brake reservoir loose was an accident, it does indicate a lack of attention to detail. Was it just that tech, that day??? Or is that a dealership that has a record of poor workmanship and ripping off their customers?? Who knows? I don't know of anyway to find out about other complaints about that dealer, so you can only go by your own experience.



My own opinion is that dealerships often charge much more than the independent garage charges for the same service, provided it is an honest garage and strives to perform a quality service for a fair price.



Since your extended warranty is almost up, you might want to talk to your relatives, friends and neighbors who live near you and find out their opinions of local indendent repair shops where they have had work done and would be willing to recommend them....especially if that shop has been in business a long time. They probably have a good record, and a lot of return customers.



It's always good to establish a good relationship with a shop your trust, long before your warranty expires...be it on a second vehicle that is out of warranty, or that you simply go there for your oil changes, brakes and other normal wear and maintenance work not covered by the factory warranty.



Personally, I have rarely ever taken my vehicle back to a dealership after the warranty has expired.



...Rich

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Todd Z,



I've been changing the oil on the Focus myself, and I don't check the brake fluid...at least not by taking the cap off. No need, you can see the level through the reservior.



I think it was probably just shoddy work, not some scam.



Now, my low brake fluid level. I know that is a sealed system when the cap is on tight, but I was a little surprised that even while lose I seemed to have lost fluid, but didn't see any signs of a spill? Evaporation? Small slops and spills over time that didn't leave a trace????



TJR

 

[Allan Reed]

I have been told that brake fluid gets lower as brake pads wear due to movement of pads. When fluid is low it is probably time to change brake pads. New pads will move fluid back to full.

 

[Rodney Leary]

Similar incident here. Wife's Santa Fe was at the body shop to fix a damaged fender due to a collision a few weeks ago. She picked up the car and brought home and I could hear a loud knocking from the engine. (Not noticeable before dropping off to body shop).



Open the hood to find the oil cap removed and wedged under some wires (holding it in place). Checked the oil and it was low. Filled oil, replaced back, and drove around the block and it sounded much better.



So either the body shop removed the oil cap for some unknown reason (they deny touching it). Or.... the shop we had it at 2 MONTHS before this to get a tune up (plugs and wires) took it off and left it off, and it's been off this whole time. :banghead:



Just odd that we didn't hear the noise until it came back from body repair.

 

[Chris Taylor]

The last(and I mean LAST) time I took my ST to the dealer was for an oil change and a tranny flush. They had deals on both.



1. They did not put the vacuum hose to the MAF back on after checking the air cleaner. Threw a code on the way out of the lot. They wanted a diagnosis charge to check on it, until I spotted the hose problem. Of course, they said they never did it...



2. They overfilled the tyranny by 2 quarts. Upon return to them, they claimed it could not happen, but took a big backstop when I told them I had another dealer look at it and confirm it was overfilled(I was 250 miles away from them at the time, and had the other dealer drain out the extra). They paid for the other dealers time.



So, did they screw it up on purpose, or did I get worthless tech? Does it matter? I don't think so. The dealer backed their tech, and wanted me to pay for the "new" problems. Nope, I won't be back... Ever.



Not saying all dealers are crooks, but I have found that many are either incompetent or dishonest, or both.

 

[Richard L]

As in Chris T's situation, I would not return to any dealer who did things wrong and would not make good on those mistakes. Nobody likes to be blamed, but when your vehicle throws up an CEL code as you are pulling out of the lot after they serviced your vehicle, I certainly don't expect to be charged a diagnostic fee for them to find out what's wrong.



TJR,

I agree, that your dealer is probably not pulling a scam, but they may have noted that your are not getting the routine mainenance performed there, and they might not look at you as a loyal customer??



Again, that's why it is good to get to know a reputable shop and build a relationship of trust before your warranty runs out. Yes it is cheaper to change your own oil, but if you throw every-other oil change at a reputable shop, they will appreciate your business and stick by you when you have problems. They know your vehicle is under warranty and that you are not going to pay them for warranty work that the dealership will do free, but they certainly want your business when the warrnty ends, and they will usually give you a better price than the dealership would.



...Rich

 

[EddieS'04]

Here is a website, that rates dealers.

You might find your dealer in here or not.

I used it recently. To complain about shoddy work. Also persistant unnecessary upsale work. That was done on my Moms Mercury.

I didnt let the do the upsale. Even after they realized they were talking to a gearhead. They wouldnt let it go.

 

[scott degroot]

Brake fluid does not get consumed. There are only 2 reasons for having low brake fluid, one is a leak in the system and the other is worn brake pads and if I were a betting man I would put money on you needing front brakes. It may have been overlooked at the servicing dealer becasue brakes are never coverd by warranty becasue they are a wear item. I suggest that you get the brake checked immediately for pad wear before you end up needing rotors becasue the pads wore completley away and you end up needing rotors.

 

[Alan Peters]

I had a really bad experience at a Ford dealer years ago. I had so many problems with the SUV, I stopped buying Ford for a couple of years. I always had problems after oil changes or major work. Went in for brakes, the gauge cluster would loose power. Would get that fixed and the power window failed. Then a few years later, I heard the FBI was investigating this dealer for odometer fraud and improper service practices.



I1tech is absolutely correct.

 

[Supercharged SVT]

One way to see is to let them do the work and then see how they did but then find out from Ford what they billed warranty for - I found a dealer that charged $700+ in dignostics to Ford Warranty on an oil change (there were NO Complaints and I actually stood there while i got switched to Synthetic) - So they lied to the MFG to make a buck - so even though I didnt get hosed the dealer is still off my list because the methods of operation are of deciet - after warranty, I would certainly be a victim. The reason that I bring this up is that it is a commone practice to worry about being dupe'd but it can be done many ways. be safe!

 

[Gavin Allan]

I always wondered why the My Ford online service history doesn't match what actually happened. I figured it was just a computer glitch.

 

[Richard L]

Dealerships have been lying to the car manufacturers and making claims for phoney warranty work for many years. Even now, I suspect that some items that customers pay are also filed with the manufacturer as Warranty work, and they actually get paid twice for the same work



If you think about it, there is really no incentive for the Dealer to do warranty work since the manufacturer only pays a fraction of what the dealer can charge the customer for...That is why the dealer will claim that the problem is not covered by the warranty, even when they know it is. This is often more common where there is only one dealership in town otherwise you could go to another dealer for a second opinion.



They know they are the only game in town, and you are stuck with that dealer's opinion, so they have you over a barrel and can often get you to pay at or near the full rate. And if they are really unscrupulous they file a warranty claim for that work, and then get paid again by the factory for the warranty service.



I think there should be a way for the owner of a vehicle to check the manufacturers website to see the service history of their vehicle and be able to determine if the Dealership filed it as Warranty work or not and be able to match their receipt to what was filed with the manufacturer.



...Rich

 

[brian brown 3]

Well, I have been working at a dealership for 27 years as... (drum roll) a warranty claims processor.. but only in the import sector.. so I don't know how tight the domestic lines are.



While I am sure there are dealerships that are crooked, the manufacturer's are not stupid. they have all kinds of indicators and comparisons to keep dealers in line. They audit the dealers, they request old parts and test them... and if a dealer is not on the up and up.. and are caught.. they get a strapulated charge back.



What that is... The auditor will check a select amount of claims, checking all sorts of requirements. punch time, add ons not signed off or authorized, customer signitures, parts and labor billings and so forth.



Of the claims they audit.. in this group of say 100 claims.. they find 10% in error... they consider that 10% of ALL the claims for that year were in error.. and charge back the dealership that amount...



So..if the dealer has 1 million dollars worth of claims paid in one year.. the charge back would be $100,000.00 dollars! so that One claim that might have been not be on the Up and Up for $100.00 just cost the dealer ten times that amount back... This makes for a big incentive to do the dealership to do the right thing.



Most of the errors I see in dealership charges are not scams.. but incompetence... and in today's world of automotive electronics and controls, you had better know what your doing or your going to be dealing the screwed up cars and customers coming back with a car you did not fix.



We hire only skilled techs and send them to training to keep up to date every year... We have meeting with them and review service issues and service bullentins every wednesday morning before work....



It takes alot of work... and mistakes happen... there are hundreds of repairs done daily.. and yep.. humans make mistakes from time to time...



It still boils down to your decision on if you feel comfortable with whom your dealing with.. no matter what service you are buying. Get to know the people who service your stuff..find someone you trust... and try not to second guess every single thing they do... life will be easier on you... maybe..



I hope this helps.



good luck

 

[Richard L]

sporttrack4me,

The dealer can do all the paperwork right, and actually performed the warranty work exactly to the manufacturer's requirements, so all the paper work and auditing may not show any errors. But that does not mean that the customer was not charged and also paid for that warranty work because the dealer claimed it was not covered??



Once a dealership knows how the system works with that manufacturer, they will quickly learn exactly what will pass the auditor's sniff test and what won't. The crooks will take advantage of that.



Even if they purposely tell the customer that the item is not covered under the warranty, when in fact it is, they can still charge the customer more money and not even bother filing a warranty claim. I suspect that happens far more often than we care to know about.



There was an investigative report on TV recently (don't recall where or the show--perhaps Dateline or 20/20) where they had placed a bad AC compressor relay and had a woman take the car to several dozen independent shops and dealerships for repairs. The car and AC was checked by a certified mechanic as running perfectly except for the bad AC relay. To replace the relays should have only cost about $100 The car was rigged with hidden cameras and microphones so they could see, hear and record what was said and what the mechanic was doing under the hood.



All the shops had competent mechanics since I think all of them zeroed in on the bad relay within minutes. Many of the shops claimed that the lady needed a new AC Compressor, and one shop said the AC compressor was about to explode?? Some told her it would cost about $2000 to fix the AC even after they found it was just the AC relay. Only a few replaced the relay and charge her about $100. Surpisingly, one dealership only charged her about $60 which was extremely cheap.



When the reporter went back with their evidence of fraud, the shops often used the old "Sorry, the mechanic must have mis-diagnosed the problem" excuse even when confronted with the video evidence that the mechanic knew it was the relay. In one shop the mechanic found the relay but his boss came over and said to write a repair ticket for a new compressor and other expensive parts.



I agree that most dealerships are honest, with the exception that they all want you to over-maintain your vehicle so they can make more money. This may be is subtle as telling you you need to change the oil every 3000k miles when the manufacturer only requires 7000k mile oil changes. Or they recommend tire rotations, new wiper blades, new belts, etc that you just had done or where supposed to be checked previously..at their shop?



If all dealerships were completely honest and could not find loopholes in the Warranty, the manufacturers would not need to have auditors. If there is no check back with the customer, the manufacturer will never know if the dealer is charging customers for service and also submitting warranty claims to the manufacturer, or if they are simply charging the customer to get more money than the warranty pays them?



Since the manufacturers employ so many auditors and scutinize all the warranty documents, it's obvious they know that the dealer will try to make false warranty claims and they are protecting themself and their money....My question is, who is protecting the customer? I don't think there is much incentive for the manufacturers auditors to see if a customer got taken for a ride, paid too much because the problem was mis-diagnosed? I always insiste that the dealer write up a ticket that there is a problem and check it out. I never take the word of the service writer to diagnose a problem without doing any diagnostics.



PS: Even if they say that it is not covered under the warranty, I ask them to fill out a ticket stating the problem and why it is not covered under the warranty so I have documented proof. It's funny how they change their minds when you force them to write it down, because they know that they will probably be caught in a lie and you will have written proof.



...Rich