Stoplight Ticket ... Need Help

[Richard Lange 2]

I need suggestions on if/how I can beat this. As well as, if I fight it and lose can I still do defensive driving or deferred judification. (This takes place in The Colony, TX)





I was at an intersection where they are doing road work. All traffic is forced down to 1 lane. The truck in front of me pulls in to the intersection. I follow ... as I am in the intersection I notice the light is yellow. ( I am not sure if it was yellow when I entered). Now the truck in front of me and myself can make this light, but he hits his brakes, forcing me to stop in the intersection while the light changes to red.



I get a ticket from an unmarked cop car ...





Can or should I fight this? My record is spotless for the past 2-3 years. I know I can take defensive driving or deferred judification. I am just a little miffed about having to pay because:



1. I am pretty sure I was beyond the point of no return ...

2. I could have made the light if the guy in front of me did not hit his brakes.





The cop said he saw me pull in to the intersection too late. I told him I did not want to argue, but I think it is a judgement call, and he agreed that if the truck in front of me had not hit his brakes I would have made it.



What do ya'll think? Any help would be great!!!

 

[Todd Z]

Well you are at fault, But i think if your polite to the judge or if the cop doesn't show up you have a chance to beat it....

Is there a fine , points???

Good luck

Todd Z

 

[A1cntrler]

I think the law here in VA states that you must have cleared the intersection by the time the light turns red. In your case, the officer may argue that the intersection was not cleared and you should not have entered until you had sufficient space to clear the intersection (truck has passed through and thedre is room for you to go.) That is how it is in VA, but like they say, Texas is a whole other country....

 

[John Zuber]

What harm will it do to show up in court? The worst is that you could be found guilty and pay the fine...no different than signing the back of the ticket and mailing the check. I was "involved" in a traffic accident a few months ago up in Georgia while on vacation. It was going to cost me some serious money and time to go to court. I fought it by writing a letter to the judge.. ended up paying the fine but with no points. If you think you were right, my advice is to fight the charge. Good luck.

 

[Bill V]

What harm will it do to show up in court?

My wife recently received a bogus traffic ticket--the cop even told her that "I would fight this one if I were you". She could have paid the $70 ticket, or appeared in court. She decided to go to the court appointment. When she got there, she was told that this isn't the day/time that she goes before the judge with the officer--this was just a chance to either pay the ticket (which she was now told would cost $80) or schedule to meet with the court registrar (or some title like that). She chose to do that. So she comes to that meeting, and she's told that the cop "shouldn't have told you that", but that she could now pay the $95 ticket, or schedule to go before the judge at yet another time! She is a school teacher, and so far all of this happened during her summer break--but now they told her that the only time she could schedule it was a morning shortly after school starts, when it was impossible for her to get away. She was left with no other choice but to pay the $95.



So to answer your question, the harm that she had in going to court was an extra $25 and a whole lot of wasted time and gas.



Unless you know that in your state, you get to go straight before the judge, rather than putting up with all this preliminary garbage, just pay it--anything more won't be worth the time you'll be forced to invest.

 

[Richard Lange 2]

In Texas the rule is if you are beyond the point of no return. Meaning you can not safely stop and reverse behind the line. Even at 10-15 MPH I don't think I could have reversed.



The other half to this if you are over half way through the intersection before the light turns red, then you legally crossed the intersection.



That is my arguement that I would have successfully done this if the truck in front of me had not hit the brakes.

 

[Richard Lange 2]

Does anyone know what hapenens in TX if you fight and lose?



I think I have a legitamate arguement, but if I lose I would like to still have the option to do defensive driving or deferred judification.



My concern is that I may lose these options if I go before a judge.

 

[Frank Marano]

funny how nobody is ever guilty when they get a ticket....including myself, lol

 

[Richard Lange 2]

Actually this is 1st ticket I have ever considered fighting. All my speeding tickets (many years ago) ... I knew I was speeding and never fought them. I did always do defensive driving or deferred judification though.





In my defense the cop admitted that it was a judgement call. That alone makes me feel like he was not 100% sure either.

 

[Buck Henry]

If you truly believe you are innocent of the citation, then by all means have your day in court. I for one could not stomach paying a fine for something I did not do just because it was the cheapest option.



On the other hand, if you are guilty and you know, pay the fine and be done with it.



Best of luck.



Buck

 

[TomT]

The court system here in Texas is way overloaded. Go to court and plead not guilty then ask for a trial by jury. They will schedule you to come in at another date (may be 6 months or longer). When you arrive they will either dismiss it outright (if the cops not there) or get you to plea bargain. You will sill end up paying a fine but they will then put you on 3 months probation and at the end of the 3 months, if you've stayed out of trouble, it will be dropped and not on your record. At the very least, explain your predicament in front of a jury. They will likely have more sympathy for you then a judge.

 

[Tom Schindler]

The court systems are designed to beleve an officer, even if he is lying through his teeth and everyone knows it.



The chance of beating the ticket in court is slim to none. The chance of beating the scum bag cop behind closed doors...hmmmm.





Tom

 

[Richard Lange 2]

But what happens if I go to court and lose. Will I still be able to do defensive driving or deferred judification?

 

[A K]

I partially affirm and partially reverse Tom's opinion.



Most district justices (or whoever presides over the court of limited jurisdiction is in your area) are former police officers. Most officers who enter their courtrooms know the DJs. Many are former coworkers or subordinates. Trust is implied. Even if the officer lies, deference is given to the officer's testimony.



The court system is not set up to believe an officer always; however it happens because of who the PEOPLE elect to their district justice positions. I don't know about your states, but in PA, the popular vote puts a DJ in office. Most district justices will not believe an officer's testimony if the DJ knows he is lying. However, the officer will never tell the DJ before hand he is going to perjure. Therefore, because of the deference given to the officer, his lie is believed to be truth.



That being said - fighting is NOT worth it. If your ticket is sub-$100, I'd pony up the fine and walk away. I would, however, plead not guilty and wait till the hearing to pay the fine. Often a DJ will lower a fine in person. However, paying the ticket outright is a strict guilty plea. You don't even get the chance for a lower fine.



Now, if you get a hearing date two or three months in advance, and want to be very creative, try what I was told by a former PennDOT executive director. He used it for a speeding ticket when he was in college, but I suppose it could be used for a red light.



You and two or three buddies go to the hearing. Have one of your friends wear a suit like a lawyer on the first seat near the courtroom aisle. Sit another friend next to him. Then you sit third, and another friend fourth. Often in hearings a DJ will ask the officer to identify the suspect if there is more than one person in the room. 99% of the time, it's obvious. However, by sitting this way, the natural assumption is the lawyer is first and then the client. When he points to your friend, presumably the DJ will ask the individual to identify himself. When the obvious occurs, wait your turn for rebuttal (the state prosecutes first). In rebuttal, you can ask yes/no questions. Ask if he saw you enter the intersection when the light was yellow. If he proceeds to explain, interrupt him and tell him to answer the question as posed. Explanations always follow "maybes." It is rare for an officer to say "Because I was in a position where I couldn't be sure he did, but he was, then yes, he did." Obviously, it's speculative. Press on for the "no." Ask questions to impeach his credibility more. Continue till you rest.



Of course, this is risky as hell and the DJ may tell you to blow it out your @$$. However, it can work, it has worked, and it may work if you're gutsy enough to take a DJ's proceedings and an officer's ego by the tail and swing them around.

But what happens if I go to court and lose. Will I still be able to do defensive driving or deferred judification?

Check your local sentencing guidelines. A DJ may impose the course in lieu of a fine. Of course, if you try to beat the charge and are disproved, the court may smack you with a fine and the course. DJs have limited discretion.

 

[Tom Schindler]

In court systems, an officer, as a sworn officer is to tell the truth. Unforunatly, many times they don't. The officer might not beein in the right place to see everything that happened, but will say he seen everything to make sure the ticket sticks.





Tom

 

[Richard Lange 2]

OK ... thanks for all the help. I'll keep you posted on what happens.

 

[TomT]

You can also just hire a traffic lawyer. They also know all the judges and DA's. They can get anything dismissed for the right amount of money.

 

[Boodrodon Dykes]

Texas, You Live in Little Elm?!? I live off of 423! (frisco side). this wasnt at the stoplight near 121 was it? cause I hate that stop light! good luck with the ticket!





Boodro

 

[Gerald Pierce]

If you couldn't see the light because of the truck, you were quite possibly following to closely. Good thing the cop didn't cite you for that also.



Honestly, I'd pay the fine, unless the traffic court is an option that is widely allowed in your state. We just left FL and when you got a ticket, you immediately got ad's in the mail for traffic school. All you had to do was go online (or to a video store and rent the video) and take the course, when done you entered the citation #, print the certificate, and it was a done deal. Pay the ticket and include the certificate. No points assessed if you were elidgible.

 

[Richard Lange 2]

RE: Texas, You Live in Little Elm?!? I live off of 423! (frisco side). this wasnt at the stoplight near 121 was it? cause I hate that stop light! good luck with the ticket!





Boodro



(Not sure how to get the cool little quote box to come up)





LOL, small world. I live west of 423 of 720. Closer to Frisco than L.Elm, but still LE. It was the intersection of Main (in the Colony aka 423) and N Colony Blvd. By Wal-Greens and AutoZone