Will Uncle Sam get half of your retirement money??

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Richard L

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You might want to consider getting your money out of your 401K/retirement account and roll it over into a Roth IRA account.



Currently the highest tax bracket is 35%, which is one of the lowest maximum tax rates this country has ever had since the inception of Income Taxes. The original maximum tax rate was only 7.5% and that only applied to the highest incomes in the land, multi-millionaires like the JP Morgan, John Astor, Carnegie, etc. The rate rapidly grew to include almost everyone and the highest tax bracket had reached 90% in the 1920s. Ronald Reagan dropped the old maximum from 50% down to the current 35%.



With Obamas current Healthcare plans and the tremendous debt accumulated by the current and previous administrations, it is inevitable that taxes will go up significantly. Yes, Obama has promised that the taxes will only go up for those who make over $250K per year, so this will not affect you immediately. But, what will the tax rate be when you retire and need to get at your nest egg of $250K or more??? By then the tax rates can easily be back up to 50% or even more..perhaps much more !! Do you want your government to get half of your lifetime savings?? I know I dont.



Check with your tax advisor, but most will agree that taxes are going up, and the assumption that you will be in a lower tax bracket when you retire is a lie. If you have over $250K in your retirement account, you will pay whatever is the maximum tax rate at that time, and every indication is that the maximum tax rate is going up very soon !!



Yes, you will have to pay the taxes on the money in your 401K now to move it into an Roth IRA, but paying the taxes now and getting your money out from under a higher tax burden later is better. If you roll your 401K money into a Roth IRA you only have to pay the current tax rate, but no 10% pentalties for being under 59.5 years of age.



You could keep your money in your 401K or other retirement account and only draw some of the money out each year, however the government requires that you withdraw all of your retirement account funds by the age of 70.5 years. However if you die, your wife or children will get the money, and they will be stuck with the tax burden. You are better off getting your money out, buy a nice life insurance policy with part of your money and your kids will be financially secure since life insurance is not taxable.



If your employer contributes 100% matching funds to your 401K, you may not care if the government takes half of your money in taxes since you immediately doubled your money when you invested your portion, but it still may be to your advantage to get your money out while the tax rates are still low.



Im not giving financial advice, just some food for thought and something to discuss with your own financial advisoror better still a knowledgeable tax advisor.



...Rich
 
the government requires that you withdraw all of your retirement account funds by the age of 70.5 years

Not exactly correct. You are required to start making minimum required distributions (MRDs), not required to withdraw the entire 401k when you turn 70.5. For example, if you have a balance of $500,000 and you are 70.5 years old, the MRD would be approximately $18,248 yearly. You would be taxed on the amount withdrawn at the applicable rate.

 
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rmcalis,

I'm not saying you are wrong, and you very well may be right. But I was told that you have to get your money out by the age 70.5 years. Mainly because Uncle Sam want's his cut. And even if you can leave it longer, if you die, Uncle Sam will still get his cut before it goes to your surviving family members.



The point is, if you leave the money in the 401K/retirement account you may be forced to pay much higher taxes when you get it out later, after the inevitable higher tax rates kick in. I suspect that will happen by the end of 2010.



...Rich







 
Quote:



You are required to start making minimum required distributions (MRDs), not required to withdraw the entire 401k when you turn 70.5.







This is correct...



I concur. My 87 year old father has been doing that for years.
 
Just put it in a coffee can and bury it in the back yard! :smile0016: Can't charge taxes when they don't know how much cash you have!
 
Les,

As I previously stated, you may be right that you do not have to withdraw ALL of your 401K money when you reach age 70.5, but only have to start withdrawls by then. But that only compounds the problem since you are older, and more likely to die suddenly.



The whole point of this thread is to point out that Taxes are very likely to increase very soon. If you are 40 years old now, what will the taxes rates be when you are 50, 60, or 70 years old?? I don't know? And I'm sure you don't know because nobody knows.



Just as an example. I am a retired veteran and I checked my pay statement online the other day and noticed that I would be receiving a little bit less money for my retirement pay this month. The explaination was that "Recent Legislation has increased my Federal Witholding Taxes"?? what Legislation? I was not aware of any tax increase, and my current employer has not increased or changed the income taxes deducted from my pay?? So what gives? I certainly don't make anywhere near $250K per year, and Obama promised that anyone making less than $250K per year would not see as much as a penny increase in taxes.



I contacted the military retired pay office and the guy I spoke with only said that the withholding tax rate had changed effective December 2nd, 2009, and that's all he knew.



So, perhaps the tax rates have not gone up yet, they just need more money now and we have to increase the amount withheld but when we file taxes we will get the money back? Ya right!



...Rich

 
We don't need to change the Healthcare in this country, we need to change the tax code!



Fairtax! Now



Drill baby drill!!!!:smile0006:
 
Cabrara,

Good plan, except that they take the taxes out up front (20%) before you even get the money, so there is no need to run to Fiji, at least not until you file your tax return and if you owe the IRS more than the 20% you paid them, then you can run to Fiji.



...Rich
 
what would keep the government from putting an additional tax on ROTH withdrawals, especially those dollars that came from a 401k plan?????



You do not have to withdraw all of your funds from a 401k by age 70.5, my mother is 85, is taking the minimum withdrawal as required, the rest is invested.



Everyone should talk to their own tax advisor, read the rules and regs for 401k's, Roth's, etc,. People should stop offering tax advice to others that you are NOT qualified to offer. If you have a CPA shingle, or license to practice tax law, then fine, but every individuals' situation is different, and what Joe Blow does may not fit your situation and end up costing you in penalties, etc., :smile0008:
 
Jimp,



Yes, everyone should seek advise from a CPA or other qualified tax advisor. That goes without saying. But don't be too harsh on "Joe Blow" advise, and don't raise the so-called experts onto too high a pedestal. They are often wrong, too.



The best tax advise I've been able to find is on the Internet, in various credible, government supplied resources. When I do give people advise on the Interweb I check those sources if I have any questions.



TJR
 
jimp,

what would keep the government from putting an additional tax on ROTH withdrawals



Only the fact that you have already paid taxes on that money. That's the same reason they don't tax you checking account or savings account. You already paid the taxes on that money, They only tax you on the interest you earned that year. That would be like the governement trying to go back asking us to pay more taxes on money we earned in the Reagan era, or the Clinton era. We pay income taxes based on the rate that was in effect the year we acquired the money.



Also, no body here is giving financial advise. I only mentioned it because with impending tax increases, it might be wise to look at your 401K and the taxes you will have to pay in the future. Just something that many people do not consider when they put money in the 401K since everyone would like you to believe that you will be in a lower tax bracket when you start to withdraw the money...which in many cases will be completely false.



I also forgot to mention that the highest tax bracket now is 28%. That reduction was inacted by George W. Bush. I think we all know taxes are not going to stay this low forever, and most knowledgable people agree that we are in for some large tax increases soon.



The age of withdrawls or taking taking minimum withdrawls. The older you get the more the odds favor you dying....Just ask any insurance company why your life insurance rates go up on new policies after the age of 54. If you die the IRS will get it's share of all the money based on the tax rate at that time and your beneficiaries will get what's left.



I'm only talking about keeping your money in your family. You earned it. Why should the government decide that in 20 years it needs more of your money and raises the taxes.



Yes, by all means talk to you financial or tax advisor, but if you don't mention it, he may not mention it either. He only wants to collect his/her fee and move on to the next customer. If he knows you have some very pointed questions, he will have to earn his fee and not sluff you off.



...Rich



 
Les,

Not necessarily. There are many assets of an Estate that are not taxed, under various circumstances. That's why I said to invest in Life Insurance which your family can get tax free. When my wife died, I did not have to pay a penny in taxes on her estate, and I was even able to file a joint return for that full year. I have a great lady lawyer. She is not cheap, but she has saved me a lot more than it cost for her services.



But the answer to your question is that currently Roth IRA are not taxed because you have already paid the taxes on that money. You can withdraw it and spend it anyway you want without penalties or additional taxes. Any attempt to tax money that you already paid taxes on (without changing hands) would be political suicide and would bring on the biggest taxe revolt since the Revolutionary War.



The whole point is to put your money where it is out from under any potential Taxes or tax increases.



...Rich
 
Rich, if the estate doesn't meet minimum requirements, you don't pay taxes and if it does, you are paying taxes on money previously taxed. Life insurance is not part of the estate, nor is it taxed.



 
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Les,

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you about estate taxes, or if the governement can tax Roth IRA's. You seem to be an expert tax advisor so you obviously know what's best for you.



I posted to this to make people aware of the fact that they may be in for a big suprise when they try to cash in their 401K, after the tak rates go up. Only the individual and their financial advisors can determine what the best strategy is for them. 401K's are not the tax shelter that most people think they are. Roth IRA's are only one route to get your money out from under the axe of the tax man.



...Rich
 
To TJR:

I don't put CPA's/tax professionals on a pedestal by any means, I have had numerous face to face meetings with both, some impressed me, some did not. They are not the final word on anything, just ask another CPA the same question and you'll probably get a different answer. Joe Blow advice is just that, Joe Blow advice. Everyone's situtation is different, therefore, following Joe Blow's advice can be expensive if your situation is not EXACTLY like Joe Blow.

TO Richard L:

Please post up where you are getting all of your financial advice with specifics. Don't just reply "irs.gov". I want to make sure I don't visit that website. :smile0007:
 

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