2004 XLT at the Crossroads

[Larry Holmes]

I had a local shop drop upper and lower oil pan assys to stop the leak and they found the plastic timing chain guide pieces and a couple of half-moon pieces of metal. So I am having them button it back up and maybe drive it until it drops. It honestly didn't exhibit any issues prior to this but the guides do have lifespan issues. I could get a Ford or Jasper reman an pay the 10 grand parts and labor (comes with parts and labor warranty). I could also get a long block cheaper, around 3 grand and have a different shop install it: I have had luck in the past with bringyourownparts.com. Besides picking a used engine from a jy, what have other Gen 1 ST enthusiasts done? It reminds me of having to put an old dog down.

 

[Todd Z]

They don't last forever anymore and are not cheap, the other issue is buying quality timing parts, Ford has discontinued most of it. So you go through the hassle of rebuilding for it only to fail again.

 

[Larry Holmes]

After exploring options I ordered a used VIN-matched engine with ~86K miles. If I get another 86K with it I'd be satisfied. First thing when it arrives is drop the lower pan to see if there's any like debris while holding my breath in suspense. Also found a mechanic to do the swap on-site. The bottom line is about almost $4K. A new remanufactured long block with installation is >$9K.

 

[SwampTrac]

This is good to hear. Fingers crossed theres no plastic in the pan! 4K isnt bad when you think about it, imagine finding a truck with 86K for only 4K. Thats impossible these days.

 

[Larry Holmes]

This is good to hear. Fingers crossed theres no plastic in the pan! 4K isnt bad when you think about it, imagine finding a truck with 86K for only 4K. Thats impossible these days.

You're right about the value all things considered. The only items that were never serviced or replaced on this one are the starter and the alternator. About everything else has so the original $16K+ cost was paid to the bank and now I've almost paid that much again to the mechanics and the parts stores. Not bad for 20 years of service so far and maybe another 10 if lucky. If the replacement engine is sound when it arrives, I'll also swap the recently replaced timing chain tensioners and the metal thermostat housing from the 162K mile veteran engine.

 

[Larry Holmes]

I put the used engine on the stand and swapped a few parts from the original engine. It was a relief to see the timing guide cassettes still intact upon inspection although the donor vehicle was not well maintained judging from the plugs in it. Pulling the old one now.View attachment 5682

 

[cadman777]

I put the used engine on the stand and swapped a few parts from the original engine. It was a relief to see the timing guide cassettes still intact upon inspection although the donor vehicle was not well maintained judging from the plugs in it. Pulling the old one now.View attachment 5682

NIce and clean!
If it was mine, I would change everything that may need changing in the future, if it wasn't already changed.
Such as, timing stuff, t-stat housing, intake seals, front and rear main seal if showing any signs of leaking, etc.
It's out, so might as well make it reliable.

 

[Larry Holmes]

NIce and clean!
If it was mine, I would change everything that may need changing in the future, if it wasn't already changed.
Such as, timing stuff, t-stat housing, intake seals, front and rear main seal if showing any signs of leaking, etc.
It's out, so might as well make it reliable.

The only signs of leaks on the donor engine are the right valve cover which was damaged in shipping and handling and I’m swapping it from the original. Also changing the lower oil pan gasket for the same reason. I don’t expect to see anything in the pan since the timing guide cassettes are intact but I still want to see for myself. Otherwise it’s going in tomorrow. After a short run with the new oil and maybe a flush I’ll change the oil out again.

 

[Larry Holmes]

On second thought I’m going to replace the rear main seal tomorrow before the engine goes in. It’s a quick and relatively inexpensive fix to prevent any eventual leak. Total cost of tools, parts, and labor is right at $4K.

 

[cadman777]

The only signs of leaks on the donor engine are the right valve cover which was damaged in shipping and handling and I’m swapping it from the original. Also changing the lower oil pan gasket for the same reason. I don’t expect to see anything in the pan since the timing guide cassettes are intact but I still want to see for myself. Otherwise it’s going in tomorrow. After a short run with the new oil and maybe a flush I’ll change the oil out again.

If you need it, then you need it!
How many miles on the engine, and where did it come from?

 

[Larry Holmes]

If you need it, then you need it!
How many miles on the engine, and where did it come from?

I got the engine from remanns dot com. Was advertised as ~86K miles in A1 shape inspected and pressure tested, shipped from Portland. It was built June 2003 about 4 months before the original engine was according to OEM stickers on it and identical so probably from a later 2003 or early 2004. When I didn’t take their quote for a remanufactured long block they sent me the offer for this one. The inside of the oil pan had their yellow chalked inventory number so they did inspect it fairly well. A neighbor referred me to the mechanic who’s doing most of the heavy work. While he’s been pulling the original I’m preparing the donor engine for him to drop it in.

 

[cadman777]

Nice find.
It's hard to find an honest 'mail order' engine seller these days.
Best of success in this 'restore'!

 

[Larry Holmes]

Well hindsight is…you know. It runs rough and it pulls OBDC P2196. I have a strange feeling that I should have swapped the fuel injectors with the original. It also pops P0705 PNDLR sync.

 

[cadman777]

See attached for what my 2003 PC/ED manual says.
It may be the same or similar to what you have.

 

[Larry Holmes]

Thank you so much!! The original motor ran so well that I am isolating the issues to vacuum and seal leaks and anything else that is directly related to the donor motor. Previous searches had related P2196 with P2195 symptoms but not as detailed as in the manual flow. Much appreciated.

 

[cadman777]

Thank you so much!! The original motor ran so well that I am isolating the issues to vacuum and seal leaks and anything else that is directly related to the donor motor. Previous searches had related P2196 with P2195 symptoms but not as detailed as in the manual flow. Much appreciated.

YVW!
You can clean your MAF sensor if it's a resistor type with MAF sensor cleaner.
It's easy, you just wipe off any debris in the tubes and housing and spray the cleaner on the resister/sensor (don't touch it with wipes and stuff).
Have you done that ever?
It's amazing how much better your vehicle will run if it's never been done before.

 

[Larry Holmes]

YVW!
You can clean your MAF sensor if it's a resistor type with MAF sensor cleaner.
It's easy, you just wipe off any debris in the tubes and housing and spray the cleaner on the resister/sensor (don't touch it with wipes and stuff).
Have you done that ever?
It's amazing how much better your vehicle will run if it's never been done before.

The MAF was cleaned about a year ago but I can still have the cleaning spray as I also use it on the’02 Boxster. I have new seals and seals for the injectors from the original engine which btw ran great except for the disintegrated guides. Also new gaskets for the top intake manifold and throttle body. It will take a day or so before this is complete but moving forward. Thanks!

 

[Larry Holmes]

Still have the P0705 and adjustment didn’t make any difference so replacing that. And with a more accurate reading on P2196 the O2 sensor is called out. Hard to believe because both of these things were on the car before the engine was replaced. Also when I cleared the codes, for some strange reason the engine ran perfectly smooth until P2196 popped up again.

 

[cadman777]

Rich could mean too much fuel or not enough air.
If it's only on the passenger side (Bank 1?), then you may have spark issues or leaking injectors, or bad FPR on that side, if there's one on each side.
I forget if there's 2 or 1 or what?
Also, I would check for spark.
If you can turn off spark to cylinders with your scanner that that's the easy way.
But if memory serves, I did it using a heavy ground wire and pulling off the distributor one wire at a time, making sure the ground picks up the spark at the distributor terminal so it doesn't fry the coil or track-up the inside of the distributor.
That is a quick way to see if you have spark issues (it's the good 'ol way of doing it).
If you can turn off injectors one at a time, then you can see if that makes any difference in how it runs and how the O2 reads on the passenger injectors.
Those are real quick tests without getting into much work.