Big Three Upgrade - Help! Show me your pics!

[Gary Hart]

The Pioneer amp is grounded to that Kinetik PowerCell.... which has a big honkin' 4-guage Monster Cable going over to a large bolt that hold the back seat down. the Hitron amp has it's ground cable going down to that same bolt.



I previously had the Pioneer amp grounded to a smaller bolt on the rear panel, near the center, just above the mdf. I changed it's ground to the PowerCell's gound because the PowerCell has that big honkin' cable going over to a ground, so figured that should perhaps help with current flow. It seems as though that change made playback get farther into the timeline of those songs I've noticed the highs/mids dimming.



I mis-spoke myself on the narration above one of the pics... now both the Hitron and Pioneer have that no-name 4-gauge power wire going to them from the distribution block. I remade the power and ground wires the other night and too the extra effort to also lay solder into the crimped connections. I made those crimped connection using a BENCH-VISE too!



This problem is really pissing me off so I'm trying to make sure with each new step I try to help the situation... I'm making the best effort I can possibly make to eliminate the problem.



I think I'm going to be re-making the ring-terminal end of the big ground cable for the PowerCell and the Hitron... because those ones don't yet have solder laid into them.



This issue is really really bugging me.. 'cause there's nothing worse than flossin', feeling all like a pimp, only to have your shicaca do something embarassing like this!



I have a naggingg suspicion that running that cable from the alternator to the battery to supplement it's connection pathway will most likely do the job and finally solve that problem.



One can only hope. And if that don't get it... fuggit... new H.O. Alternator it is.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

It's weird that you have issues. I have approx the same size amps as you don't have any issues. I don't even have a second battery. Just a red top under the hood is all..

 

[Gary Hart]

The isolator would stop the two batteries from fighting each other. If one isn't fully charged they send juice back and forth to create and equal charge on both. With an isolator both will still get charged but they won't drain each other.

I totally missed this blurb the first time reading thru as my eyes were drawn to that picture of a very clean-looking engne compartment just below it.



SIGH.... yet another thing I gotta do. Thanks for this description. Made this issue very clear to understand.

 

[Gary Hart]

Hmmm..... I wonder if it's my headunit doing something weird without my knowing it... guess I'll try a different input source for a bit.

 

[Gavin Allan]

I'd tie the grounds together- both batteries and the alternator case. Jumper both of them to the chassis at both ends, and to the engine at the alternator. Doesn't make sense to overkill on the positive without beefing up the negative too. Bet you are getting current differences if you measured between the two negative battery terminals, as well between either of them and the alternator, especially between the rear battery and the alternator case.

 

[Bill Koonce]

Wouldn't using Monster Cable be fine as long as I run from alternator...back to the firewall... then over to the battery side? To keep it away from the hot stuff? It can actually take quite a bit of heat before anything bad happens. On a few of my connectors I've soldered them carefully using a FATBOY propane torch and it worked beautifully.

Obviously your idea of "beautifully" and mine differ considerably. You might think it makes perfect sense to add fuses (and thus even more failure points) as "protection" in case your work is too sloppy or your parts are too frail. I OTOH know why cars don't come from the factory with B+ battery fuses, and stand by the engineering principles behind that.



I feel that I would be irresponsible not to point out at least some of the EXTREMELY DANGEROUS problems that I see in practically every photo, from the live B+ cable that's exposed to many sharp edges and moving parts, to the "seatbelt missile". And the ignorance about choosing proper wiring. I hope and pray that this disaster waiting to happen is a trailer queen that is never driven on public roads. Even then I don't think that the fire marshal would you to exhibit the thing inside a building.



My sincere advice is before spending a cent on poorly-designed, ungraded not-DOT-approved consumer electronics, that you go to your local community college and take a basic class in automotive electrical systems. If they don't offer one, try basic DC theory and ask your instructor how to calculate proper wire size and type for a given application (it's very easy). You'll make your money back when you learn where to shop for bulk wire that's graded, reliable, street legal and a whole lot less expensive than that boutique wiring.



If you can't (or can't be bothered to) do that, at very least, buy yourself a "cheat sheet", like "Ugly's Electrical Desk Reference" (ISBN 978-0-7637-7333-5) or other related reference books (http://www.uglys.net/). You can find much of this stuff online, but buying the book will mean that you will have the reference where you need it, when you need it.



Even a fist-sized lead-acid battery has enough energy in it to do some serious damage. These are not toys! Please, please learn how to respect this kind of power before you get someone hurt.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

It's interesting that every aftermarket light kit comes with a b+ fuse on it since you are saying it isn't needed.... hrm or nevermind the fact that the MECP testing standards include fusing any battery connection with 10" of the battery. But you must know something they don't so fill us in? Heaven forbid a fuse blow instead of burning my truck up..



All of the pictures shown have large enough wiring for the loads if not overkill.. always better to have too much than not enough for an electrical load but I'm sure you knew that too..



None of the products are DOT approved.. stereos and all related equipment aren't tested/approved by DOT.



So the only thing that you pointed out the is correct is the possibly of a seat belt missile, which even that is arguable since I'm sure that box weighs less than me and I trust them to keep me in place..

 

[Bill Koonce]

It's interesting that every aftermarket light kit comes with a b+ fuse on it since you are saying it isn't needed...

I didn't say that it wasn't needed for aftermarket light kits. But that's not what I was talking about, was it? No it was not. So why are you putting forth this straw man?



Car batteries sure are required to meet DOT standards! The DOT also regulates how they're transported. That includes how and where they're attached to the vehicle, how they're wired and insulated. You are wrong, and the DOT is right. I pray to God that you learn about electricity without killing or maiming yourself and/or others. I really do.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

How is an amp any different than a light kit? It draws power from a battery and needs a fuse. Just like any other aftermarket electrical item.



DOT standards aren't met for (some) aftermarket lights, along with amps, or any other audio device. You brought up DOT and we aren't talking about anything that has to do with DOT except the fact that they use the battery, but thats like saying we are talking about modding a vehicle that met DOT and now doesn't...



If I'm wrong actually point it out and correct me, I see nothing wrong with whats going on in the pictures, you are talking about NOT using fuses and that is wrong. Then saying that there are sharp edges and moving parts, where are the wires that are running along sharp edges or close to moving parts?



What do I need to learn about electricity? You haven't talked about the actual principles that are wrong.. teach me please. I'm begging to learn something.

 

[Bill Koonce]

If I'm wrong actually point it out and correct me...

Mainly because you're behaving like a rude and combative twit. You have tried to brush off everything I've said by misdirection and trying to put the onus on me. You're not very good at it, BTW. If it's your work, or if you're defending it, then it's your responsibility, period.

teach me please. I'm begging to learn something.

I want that to be genuine, but I'm not convinced. It's moot anyway. This is something that's best taught by an accredited expert. And that means going to school. According to the SAE and a local community college, it takes three semesters of classroom training (and passing the courses, of course) to be proficient in automotive electrical systems. If you're serious, go to school.

...thats like saying we are talking about modding a vehicle that met DOT and now doesn't...

Precisely. It's the difference between driving a street legal car and building a death trap. What's wrong with the latter is self-evident; there's no need to defend it. One is right and the other is wrong.



Now before you try to "baffle me with BS" again, I have a challenge for you. Take that vehicle as it appears in the photos to a Ford dealership service department, and ask them to check your work. Tell them that you want the mods to appear on the Carfax report so a future buyer knows about all the great things you've done to it. Be sure to tell them that it's going to Texas and must pass a vehicle inspection. Then let us know what the official, certified by Ford verdict is.



If you can get a legit, non-bribed safety sticker, I'll pay for the cost of doing it. I'll double it. I give my word on that.



The ball is in your court.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

I haven't been rude, you have said something is wrong. But won't go into details. You are the one saying it's not right, so what isn't right? That is on you, you made the statements, not me. If it is so wrong say what wrong.



I pointed out a that the MECP says fuses are necessary for all battery connections that is accredited and the leading source in the mobile electronics world.



I'm dead serious if you can point something out that is obviously wrong PLEASE tell me so it can be fixed, I transport myself and my kids in this vehicle.



You know I"m not going to take it to a Ford dealership and have them inspect it. And I submit that even if I did it wouldn't matter. The vehicle has passed VA and CA safety inspections for multiple years on more than one occasion.



I will even give you a freebie of what I do know is wrong.. My fuses aren't mounted to anything.. they are however run in a safe and secure place and will not move into a moving part.



The ball has been in your court the whole time, you haven't made a point, you said it's not right.. well what isn't right? You came into the thread to tell us something is wrong and to correct us.. there has been no correction, go read a book, go take a class, go talk to ford.. either you have something to say or you don't..



Combative twit signing out.

 

[Gary Hart]

Today added the Postive Alternator to Positive Battery terminal and I am soooo happy! Everything is PERFECT now!!! System SLAMS!!!



Thanks you Guys! :banana:

 

[Bill Koonce]

You know I"m not going to take it to a Ford dealership and have them inspect it.

That's a start. You're admitting that you're wrong, at least here. I sincerely hope that you're not dead wrong.



I'll repeat this for everybody: If you don't know what you're doing, learn first, then do.



If you plan on operating your vehicle on public roads, race tracks or other regulated areas, do learn and follow the rules. Those rules aren't there by mistake, or somehow "wrong". They're there for everybody's safety.



If you're young and haven't had any close encounters with death, don't make the mistake of confusing your lack of experience with immortality. You don't get any do-overs when you're dead, so pay attention when people who are more experienced and better educated than you give you helpful warnings.



Automobiles are a lot like firearms. Both have the potential to kill and maim. And poorly made examples of both can destroy unintended targets. Both require maturity and vigilance for safe operation.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

I'm done with you, it's pointless.

 

[Bill Koonce]

Are you trying to get the last word? I'll be happy to let you have it.



Oops! I guess I spoiled it for you. Go ahead, go again. :grin:

 

[Todd Z]

ADMIN HAS THE LAST WORD..... TZ



Todd Z