Bush: Troops to Stay in Iraq for Years

[Mark B]

The troop losses more acceptable because they volunteered?



The fact they volunteered makes Bush's cavalier, ill-concieved use of these soldiers even more tragic.



I volunteered and was fortunately never in combat. But, even at 18, I had an understanding the government was taking an option on my life for 6 years. I received training and a paycheck and they could risk my life if necessary.



The unspoken compact in my naive little mind was that my life would not be expended without a damn good reason and before other options were exhausted. Bush has broken that compact and has compromised the all volunteer concept maybe beyond repair.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

>> The troop losses more acceptable because they volunteered?



Nope, I said I wish no single soldier ever die, nor do I wish we were at war. But with that said, I can't and won't let people, especially parents solely "blame Bush" for the loss of their children to war, when they and their children decided to enlist.



>> The fact they volunteered makes Bush's cavalier, ill-concieved use of these soldiers even more tragic.



Cavalier and ill-concieved are a matter of opinion.



>> Bush has broken that compact and has compromised the all volunteer concept maybe beyond repair.



Has he? Have resent enlistment statistics shown evidence to that end?



You will find no harsher critic of war, in general, than I. And, I think Bush has done a poor job with this war, in general. But I sense a tremendous amount of Monday morning QBing and an overall unwillingness to finish what was started on the part of many, and that is a little unsettling. Should we simply pull out now? I dunno?

 

[Mark Grumpy]

NO!!



An Enlisted Volunteer.

 

[Fred]

Thank you grumpy, for what you're doing.

 

[Chuck Lake]

I guess I've just been a mindless volunteer for the past 22 years. Give me a break. The cavalier attitude is to assert that the volunteers are naive and are somehow victims. Many folks I know are on their third and fourth tours. It isn't because they are forced to go. All the folks I know want to go back over. They are to a man and woman, college educated. Most of the National Guard troops I know have put lucrative careers on hold to serve overseas. They do this because they believe in the cause. Yes there are some folks that came into the military just to get the college money. For anyone that enlists at this point just for that reason is truly naive and stupid. Though… I've seen many a convert from "only in for the college money" to warrior since 9/11. It is important to question our leaders about the commitment of troops. While we are at it, ask about the exit strategies for the Balkins, Korea etc. If we are truly needed in these locations long after the gunfire has stopped, is it that far fetched to believe that we are still needed in a country where it has not. If you wish to bash the President, that is you prerogative in a free society (which is paid for by the sacrifices of those in uniform). Please just don't do it in my name, or that of my friends or any of the other so called naive volunteer victims. If you want to help the military, donate to the USO, volunteer at a VA hospital or make a donation to any one of the aid societies set up by each of the services.



www.aerhq.org

www.nmcrs.org

www.cgmahq.org

www.uso.org

 

[Robert Poole]

Well said Doughboy.



Have a good one



Bob



A "Desert Storm vet"

 

[Tom Schindler]

A guy I used to work with always bragged about the retirement he was going to get from his active duty and reserve duty. He was pround, as one should be, to serve in the military.



When he was put on the list to be shiped overseas, his tone changed. He was angry that he was going to be sent away.



I had to remind him that one must work for the retirement. That is the chance you take. You should not expect the retirement and money to come free.



He did not like to hear that. He spent two years there. He is home now.





Tom

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

I have three cousins in theater, one of which is on his fourth deployment, and has been there nearly three years in total. My wife has two cousins in theater (we have a picture of one sitting in one of Maddas's Golden Thrones with a Gold Plated Kalashnikov in his lap). Both of which have been on at least two deployments, one is in his third as an MP (2x at Abu G).



I have thought about going in to the military so I can go spread liberty as well. That being said, I will add my comments to those above:



When you start name calling, using vile or derogatory terms, etc. you lose all credibility for maintaining a cohesive and informative argument. Passion is not a bad thing in a debate, as long as it's channeled properly. "Bush Lied, People Died" is not a way to win an arguement. Present FACTS.

The troop losses more acceptable because they volunteered?

No troop losses are a good thing, but how did you feel when Clinton sent troops into Somalia? Did you know that we are still there? (Sort of anyway). How about when Mr. Clinton sent troops into Kosovo? How about when Kennedy sent troops to Vietnam or Cuba? Wait, I know.... I bet you don't think that D-Day was a worth while investment made by FDR either?? You do realize that we lost more American Men in the first 5 minutes of the invasion of France than we have in three years? Do you also know that the reason we lost 15 solders in one engagement in Somalia was because Mr. Clinton would not authorize the use of Proper equipment?



Last I checked, Mr. Bush is not micromanaging the war based on polls... like Mr. Clinton did.

The fact they volunteered makes Bush's cavalier, ill-concieved use of these soldiers even more tragic.

Cavalier? Sending cruise missles into Afganistan the day before the impeachment hearings began for Mr. Clinton was not cavalier? The Bay-Of-Pigs invasion was not cavalier? Ill-Conceived? What part of over 3,000 citizens killed in one day do you not understand? The proof is out there that Iraq sponsored terrorism. Iraq was giving $15,000-25,000 to the families of suicide bombers. I don't care if he supported the Taliban (which he did), Hezbolah (which he did) or any other group as he was openly supporting the killing of innocents.

I volunteered and was fortunately never in combat. But, even at 18, I had an understanding the government was taking an option on my life for 6 years. I received training and a paycheck and they could risk my life if necessary.

I thank you for your service. Weither or not you fought, you helped to keep this country free and free oppressed people all over the world. You join with millions of your brothers-in-arms over the past 225 years in an exclusive brotherhood filled with Honor, Courage, Fortitude and commitment. The risk was yours as you did voulenteer. You knew the risk/reward scenario. No sympathy for you on this aspect. Should you have been killed in the line of duty, you would have been honored as any Great American would have been who gave the ultimate sacrifice.

The unspoken compact in my naive little mind was that my life would not be expended without a damn good reason and before other options were exhausted. Bush has broken that compact and has compromised the all volunteer concept maybe beyond repair.

Eh Hmm... 14 UN Resolutions, Iraq breaking the Cease-Fire of 1991/92. Iraq attempting to shoot down dozens of US Military warplanes that were authorized to be there. The active reseach in and use of Chemical Weapons. The active research in Nuclear Weapons. The murder of over 1 million civilians. Ethnic Cleansing. Conspiracy with Terrorist. State Sponsorship of Terrorism. Unrecognization of a Soverign Country and desires to wipe the unrecognize country off the face of the Earth (Isreal). But the biggest reasons in clude:



-Rape Rooms

-Torture

-Murder

-Violati

 

[TrainTrac]

Because of this idiot Richard Belzer, I may just not watch Law & Order: SVU anymore... It's sad that so many people have a pre-conceived notion of those of us in the military. Too many people stereotype military service as a last resort for someone who can't make it anywhere else.:angry:

Belzer Proclaims He Knows Better About Iraq than Uneducated Soldiers in Iraq



Posted by Brent Baker on March 18, 2006 - 04:29.



When Congresswoman Ileanna Ros-Lehtinen contended Friday night, on HBO's Real Time with Bill Maher, that servicemen she's met in Iraq are “saying 'we're proud of our mission, we know what we're doing over here. We don't want you guys in Washington to lose it over there,'” actor/comedian Richard Belzer condescendingly fired back, claiming that to “ask them” is “bullshit” since, apparently unlike him, “they don't read twenty newspapers a day.” Ros-Lehtinen cited the knowledge of her Marine officer stepson, but Belzer, who plays “Detective John Munch” on NBC's Law & Order: SVU, retorted: “Doesn't mean he's a brilliant scholar about the war because he's there.” A quite agitated Ros-Lehtinen sputtered: "Oh, you are though! You are though? Okay." To which Belzer affirmed: "Well I have more time...” Host Bill Maher interjected that Belzer's point was that a 19-year-old is in the army “because he probably couldn't find other employment." The Republican Congresswoman from Florida countered that her stepson is a college graduate, leading Belzer to snidely denigrate the military: "You think everyone over there is a college graduate? They're 19 and 20-year-old kids who couldn't get a job.”



Ros-Lehtinen mocked him: "Yeah, you know because you've been there." Belzer rudely lashed back: "What, I don't ******* read!? Don't do that!" He went on to argue: "It's this patronizing thing that people have about if you're against the war everyone's lumped together. You know, the soldiers are not scholars, they're not war experts." That was too much for host Bill Maher: "You're going to lose even me...”



During the 2004 campaign, liberals contended that Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's experience in Vietnam as a ground soldier made him an expert on the Iraq war, but now, by Belzer's reasoning, soldiers and Marines actually on the ground in Iraq have no credibility.



Belzer is a conspiracy theorist who authored the 1999 book, “UFOs, JFK and Elvis: Conspiracies You Don’t Have to Be Crazy to Believe.” His NBC bio notes that “he hosted and produced The Belzer Connection, a series of conspiracy-theory prime time specials for the Sci-Fi Channel.”



On the March 17 Real Time with Bill Maher, produced at CBS Television City in Los Angeles and aired live on HBO at 11pm EST, Belzer and Ros-Lehtinen were joined on the panel by liberal writer Michele Mitchell. Belzer had a boisterous audience on his side during this exchange with Ros-Lehtinen which I attempted to transcribe, impeded by the frequent talking over each other:



Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen: “Having been in Iraq a few times, and Afghanistan, having met the troops one-on-one with free reign and asking them what they're doing, they're saying 'we're proud of our mission, we know what we're doing over here. We don't want you guys in Washington to lose it over there'. And there is a great sense of determination that what they are doing is making a difference. And yes, it has been an important mission what we're doing, come on.”



Richard Belzer: “Yeah, come on. Our soldiers now are at-”



Ros-Lehtinen: “Are a volunteer force, a volunteer force.”



Belzer: “Okay, fine. No one questions the nobility and the honor that these men and woman who are serving and what they're doing. No one questions that. But now they're targets, they're not going out. Now they're just protecting each other and they're in the middle of a civil war. So it's really not fair to have these people who volun

 

[TrainTrac]

Link to actual video clip of Richard Belzer on "Real Time".

 

[Robert Poole]

here is a pic..[Broken External Image]:

 

[Fred]

Here's another picture. Older one, but good one. How soon we forget.

[Broken External Image]:

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

I've pretty much written off Law and Order and am on the verge of striking ER from my house. The episode a week ago with Neela and her "rant" at a military family gathering pushed way too far. It would have been different if the other families had a bit more spine and stood againt the garbage that was spouted, but nope. They sat there and did their best Lumberg impression.... Idiocy.



It's time to watch the History Channel.....