Ebay Fraud Protection & Carfax are USELESS

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J

Jason Barnes

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Jan 16, 2008
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Location
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I bought my ST on Ebay from a buyer who Ebay covered under their "fraud protection" program. I also did a Carfax report before I paid for the vehicle. Carfax didn't show ANY accidents in their system and neither Ebay nor Carfax would honor their "buyback guarantee" because apparently someone wrecked the vehicle and failed to file a police report and since that is not a computer error they did NOTHING. My ST has obvious been involved in some type of rollover accident. I didn't notice it until I got back home and took it a body shop to fix the leaking back window and the guy there showed me a few signs of a roller such as bondo covering the seam above the passenger front door. I didn't think anything of it when I was picking the ST up, but I recall that there was a body shop in the same fenced-in lot as the car lot. I also noticed on the title that there were about 4 or 5 dealers that most recently had the ST. The mileage between when I bought the ST and when the seller bought it was the same (he put 0 miles on it). This all makes me think that the ST was wrecked and towed in when they bought it and they "fixed" it.



There is no need to reply to this message (unless you just want to) I am just venting.:angry:
 
I have purchased one Escort GT off ebay and my sister got an Explorer, also on eBay. Both are stellar cars.



As with most everything else, buyer beware. Buying a car sight unseen is taking a risk. When buying sight unseen, bid accordingly. You are buying to get a deal. The question, did you buy it cheaper than local? If so, is the price you paid making up for the damage?



Buying any used car is a gamble. My wife was within $500.00 of her car getting totaled. A police report was filed. Insurace company payed to fix the vehicle.



Carfax NEVER reported the accident.





Tom
 
Well stated Tom. I know of friends that have done very well, as you, on e-bay.



I'm just a touch and feel guy when it comes to cars.
 
For the most part, purchasing cars or trucks is an expensive investment, if it sounds too good to be true, it usually is...buyer beware !!!
 
I agree with Mark, contact your states consumer affairs department usually that falls under the secretary of states office.

Depending on how the e-bay ad was worded, there could be a case of materiel misrepresentation, BMW lost a multi-million dollar law suit a few years ago for selling cars that had damage that was not disclosed. Even a private seller can be taken to court. If this was a small dealer, they probably will work something out rather than have a negative feedback on e-bay or lawsuit. Depending on the damage and susequent repair, this vehicle can give you problems more than a leaking rear window. No telling how this accident has affected the overall structural integrity of the vehicle. Also if there was any paint and body work, this will affect the overall value, ie deminished value, I would definately pursue getting your money back.
 
i don't thin CarFax gets their data from the police reports, it comes from the auto repair centers that order the parts and do the body work. The Police have no idea about how much damage the vehicle has sustained. Sometimes the body shops don't know about all the hidden damage until they start to take it apart.



So if the car was wrecked and sold to a dealer or a bodyshop they would not have any incentive to make any reports of the VIN etc., and CarFax would never really know about the accident. Also, even if it was reported, it can take many months for the information to get entered into the CarFax system.



You probably should have directly asked the seller if the vehicle had been involved in any accidents. If they lied, then you would have some ammunition for a lawsuit.



As for eBay and PayPal not honoring their so-called "Money Back Guarantees", well they are a joke. They try to imply that there is no risk to the buyer and it's perfectly safe to buy anything that they claim is qualified for their Money Back Guarantee, unitl something goes wrong. That's when they bring out the details and fine print that shows that their Guarantee does not cover any of the actual risks of fraud by the seller. It only covers you if eBay or PayPal did something wrong...And that would even be harder to prove.



...Rich
 
Doesn't Ebay or Paypal have a return clause that states the item purchased was not as stated by the seller? Do you have the original ebay sellers ad? Did it specify it had been wrecked. Did you ask the seller if the vehicle had been wrecked or had any damage? Did you keep his/her response to that question if you ask?



Arm yourself before you contact the Attorneys Generals office. Print out all documentation such as the selling agreement from the seller, what pay pal states and ebay and car fax for buyers protection. Also, Find out what the law is in the state in which the buyer lives as to what he is suppose to disclose when selling a vehicle. Maybe he was legally suppose to disclose that information?



If the seller knowingly sold a wrecked vehicle I think he should have disclosed that important

information...but that is just i m op.

And if there is no real damage to make it not be reliable or severe such as Frame damage. You are probably ok and will not have issues, unless who ever fixed it did shotty work.



Good luck with you new to you ride! :)

 
I think it may vary from state to state where carfax may pick up the info. My wife lost her '01 escape last august to flood waters. She only got 1" water in the floorboard. Suck up just enough water to shut the motor down. The intake snorkel is behind the head light. I took a friend with a big truck and pulled her home, from 2 blocks away. The water was only up to my knees. So most of the car was above water, electronics, motor, etc. I cleared the front cylinders of the water. It was hot august here in houston. I would have to tear down the upper intake to clear the back. So I turned it over to the insurance. They totaled it. My opinion some is driving that escape today. Only had 45Kmiles, new tires, brakes and custom extior peices and a 45 piece rosewood interior kit. I bet it went to auction and was cleaned up..



What I did was send in a form to the state that the car was a flood loss. I hope that it was picked up by carfax and others. I have thought of checking up on it to see if it was. I wanted any future owners to know this. This could be something we all do to help future owners of cars that we loose in certian crcumstances.
 
Bought an 03 stang cobra on ebay, paid my 500 deposit at auction close, told the seller I would fly from San Jose to salt lake within two days cash in hand.

With one condition,I will line up a ford dealership to inspect the car and will also arrange for a body shop inspection ( one with a frame machine)

Car drove perfect, ford dealer gave it 100%.

Bodyshop got it dialed in, hit it with the lasers, frame was twisted.

Seller refunded all my expenses, just took my money and flew home

carfax was 100% clean, was my dream car, 3600 miles, as new:(

You have to spend a few bucks and do your homework.
 
Carfax can't report accidents that are never turned in to insurance or have a police report against them. I don't see it as their issue.



If you can prove the seller knew the prior damaged condition (was he the original owner?) and that he didn't disclose that condition when asked, then you have a case against him.



I don't think one has to freely divulge an accident that has had repairs. You can say things in the ad like "good condition", "no body damage", etc, if it has been fixed properly. You can't, however say "never in an accident", and if asked if it as in an accident and you know that it has, the only answer is "yes!"



TJR
 
If I had asked if the vehicle had been wrecked, 99.99% of used car dealers in America will say "not to my knowledge." Now how can anyone prove him otherwise? I don't have John Coffee powers to touch him and see the world through his eyes.



The body shop man I took the truck to also said his insurance wouldn't allow him to work on a vehicle that had been involved in an accident and not properly fixed (he said the roof is weak).



Also when I contacted the seller with this issue he never offered to help find out who had the vehicle before him. If they didn't wreck the truck, someone who had it before them did and when they sold it they should have disclosed the wreck to the buyer, who should have continued the chain of disclosure. When that chain of disclosure was broken, morals and possibly laws were broken.







Now that I have a few people reading this post, does anyone know how I can find all the previous owners of my ST? If I can get a list I will start a search with the first owner that will lead to the bad guy.



Also does anyone know if my local police department could run the VIN and find anything out?
 
Years ago we had a funeral home that bought a new hearse and limo. It took longer to get them in and they were delivered as brand new. Years later they decided to change the color of their vehicles. This is when the body shop found out both had been wreck. When they checked it out they found the truck delivering them was in a big wreck. Fourtunatly it was only body work, but it was too late to do anything about the price they paid. They did say that they would never buy from that company again.

Now a good story on a dealer. Many years ago we had a Chevette i the perfect color, yellow. When you hit the brakes you didn't know if the front our the back end would make it to the stop sign first. The dealer worked on it over and over again.

he gave us a car to drive every time they worked on it. After a year we both decided it could not be fixed. He took it back for what we paid for it. It only cost us gas, license and insurance.

I hope you can get your money back, but don't let this turn you off on the ST. I have an 01 that other than an 4 x 4 switch, and the center console arm rest, have had no problems. Good Luck!
 
Find out what your guy means as weak?, you can roll a car, weld in a new top and be good to go, issue may not be as bad as you think.
 
All I know is he said some kind of safety piece was missing from the roof and he pushed down on it and said that it is much weaker than it should be.



I trust what he says because he does most of the body work for the local Ford (Lincoln & Mercury) & Dodge (Chrysler & Jeep) dealership's customers because they don't have a body shop at the dealership.



This incident sucks, but it hasn't turned me off to ST's. This website is awesome and should receive major funding from Ford for all the stuff on here. I especially love all the projects.



This website has already made the next car I look for a ST also. Maybe even a 2008 Adrenalin. Does anyone know approximately how much more the Adrenalin is worth over a regular ST?
 
Again, the police have nothing to do with Carfax. They get all their information from the insurance companies and bodyshops. Sometimes the accident is not handled by insurance, and sometimes bodyshops don't report the repairs



The Police can report that there was an accident, but that does not establish the extent of any damage if any.



If a vehicle is damage such as in a flood, there was no accident. If the vehicle was convered by insurance, the insurance company will establish that the vehicle was a total loss, pay the claim and their paperwork would normally get to Carfax. If the car is turned over to the insurance company, they will report the vehicle has being salvaged and the state will identify the vehicles a salvaged vehicle and if the vehicle is sold or registered, it will be issued a salvage title.



Unless the eBay add stated that the vehicle was never in an accident, there is no fraud and no grounds for a refund. That's why I said that he should have asked the seller if the vehicle had ever been in an accident. If he lied and said "No" then that would be grounds for a lawsuit because he lied when he was directly asked, and you would have his email, or eBay posted answer as evidence that he lied. If you did not ask, then he is not obliged to tell you anything he knows about the vehicle.



I would never buy a vehicle over the Internet without seeing the vehicle and being able to test drive it, kick the tires and know what I'm buying.



eBay and PayPal always imply that the Buyer is safe from fraud but they actually do more to protect the seller from fraud than they do the buyer. Many years ago I purchased a Mini Digital CamCorder from a seller on eBay who was listed as being in the Phoenix, AZ area. The camera was listed as brand new, but the box had been opened. When I got the camera it was missing a number of accessories, including the english operating instructions, and the tape transport was jammed due to someone who had obviously pried on it with something like a screwdriver? The Seller appologized and asked me to send the camera back and she would immediately send me another one that she guaranteed would be new. I never heard from her again. He eBay account was closed and now everyone who bought from her in the previous 2 weeks got ripped off.



When I got her address and telephone number from eBay, she had a post office box in a border town in Arizona that was just 2 blocks from the Mexican border and she listed a Mexican telephone number. When I called the telephone number the person who answered did not speack english and I doubt that he know what I was even asking him.



I filed a fraud report with the Post Office (a real waste of time) and both eBay and PayPal ran investigations. I attempted to stop my credit card company from paying the charge to PayPal but they refused saying that PayPal did nothing wrong, and they only acted as a middle man to transfer the money as I directed. The credit card company refused to send me a letter indicating that they refused to remove the charge.



eBay would not pay me from their so-called $200 fraud insurance because I could not get a letter from my credit card company showing they refused to remove the charge from my bill. Also, eBay only gives you about 15 days to handle all of the paperwork and if you don't get them all the paperwork they require by the deadline your claim is denied anyway so it probably impossible for most people to get that kind of documentation to support their claim and get to eBay within their short deadline...And I suspect that they know that and count on that to no have to pay the claims.



...Rich



 
Jason, your local dealership may or may not be able to help you with running the vin...and motor vehicle, but...there is that little thing called the privacy act law. That might be the problem of finding out who all owned the vehicle. Since the seller didn't offer up much help to find out who the previous owner was....it was probably somebody he or she knows. If not himself. You would think he would do all he could to help you out with this issue.



I would have that body shop guy put it in writing what, in his professional opinion is the damage and a safety factor. and you may want to go to a couple more body shops and ask the same of them. And then I would email the seller with that info. Sounds like a safety reinforcement piece is missing in the roof, if it was that easy to to press down on.



I still don't believe the seller didn't know. Something like that would have been noticiable at some point. Maybe that is the reason he or she sold the truck?



Talk to your Motor Vehicle Department and show them the documentation. ask them what the rule is in your state for selling a vehicle. They might just run the vin and contact the previous owners for you. who knows ? Good luck!









 

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