Engine Ping

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Stacy Waldrep

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Does anybody else have to run premium gas so that their engine won't ping? I noticed the other day after filling up with regular (87 octane) that my engine was pinging pretty noticeably when accelerating. I'm not meaning racing type accelerating either but just with the cruise on at 70 mph. I thought it was just bad gas since I did get that tank from a station I don't normally go to. I ran some Seafoam through it and after using up that tank filled up with mid grade (89 octane) from a different station. That helped but I could still hear a little pinging every now an then. After that tank, I filled up with premium (91 octane) and the pinging went away. I certainly don't want to have to run premium in my truck all the time. I always stay on top of basic maintenance such as oil changes, air filter, fuel filter, and spark plugs. My truck is a 2004 and has 180,000 miles on it. Anything else I can check that may be causing it so I can correct it and not have to use premium? Thanks.
 
Our Gen 1 is very sensitive to the different brands of gasoline. I run Shell 87 in it and it pings like hell going up hill or medium to heavy loads. Esso 87 doesn't ping at all. Try a couple of different gas brands.
 
Are you sure it isn't timing chain rattle? It sounds a lot like pinging, but it has nothing to do with fuel, and it occurs mostly between 2000 and 3000 RPM.



Maybe this isn't the case for you, because I think the timing chain rattle is especially strong when under load in 2nd gear, not at 70 MPH cruise on flat terrain.



I paste part of one of the TSBs below (ignore the "cold only" wording -- I get the rattle regardless of temperature).



==========



TSB 02-7-6 4.0L SOHC Timing Chain Rattle



*Engine - 4.0L SOHC - Rattle noise from primary chain drive area between 2K-3K RPM - Cold engine operation only



*Noise - Rattle noise from primary timing chain drive area between 2K-3K RPM - Cold engine operation only - vehicles equipped with 4.0L SOHC Engine only



Ford: 99-02 Explorer, 01-02 Sport Trac, Explorer Sport, Ranger

Mercury: 99-02 Mountaineer



Issue:



Some vehicles equipped with the 4.0 SOHC (Single Over-Head Cam) engine may exhibit a Primary Timing Chain rattle noise. The noise is audible during hot and cold engine operation (but predominantly found on cold engines) under acceleration, typically at 2400-2500 rpm. To confirm presence of this noise, accelerate in 2nd gear between 2000-3000 rpm and listen for rattle noise that sounds similar to spark knock. This may be caused by the Primary Timing Chain Tensioner system.

 
I'm sure it could be that (I'm hoping it's not) but I haven't heard it that early in acceleration. Also, the premium gas has made it go away which I'm guessing the gas would have no effect on timing chain rattle. Mine is also a 2004. Didn't they supposedly correct the timing chain rattle problem after 2002. Regardless, would timing chain rattle go away when using premium gas?
 
After timing chain rattle being mentioned, I can hear a little rattle when accelerating in 2nd gear around 2400 rpm. It sounds a little different than what I was hearing at highway speeds but I can hear it. Will replacing the right and left tensioners that screw into the engine help this at all? Is my motor on it's last leg since it has this rattle? Should I just drive it until it dies (I don't plan on removing the engine as I've heard is required to fix it)? How long will they run with this rattle?
 
It's possible that the gas blend in your area has changed for the summer. i used to have a 3.0 Ranger that would ping like crazy on the summer oxygenated gas if I got 87. The Trac doesn't ping but it does run better with better mpg in the summer if I run 89. On my Ranger the dealer could tinker with the computer but it never lasted long and would be back to pinging.
 
Those tensioners are spring-hydraulic tensioners. The spring applies enough tension for startup until the oil pressure builds. The typical failure for these is the spring weakens and a rattle can be heard for a few seconds at startup. I haven't heard of the hydraulic tensioner portion failing, but it could.



A timing chain rattle would typically be less pronounced than a valve float rattle or ping. Valve noise can be from fuel, cam(s), valve springs, timing ...



I think that no one can say the condition of the engine without proper diagnosis.



While it's not my first choice, sometimes, after some investigation, it is efficient to bring it to a shop.
 
One of the things that you need to remember is that if your vehicle is designed to run on Regular gas, and you hear pinging, you have a problem that needs to be fixed.



My guess is that you need to have the intake and cylinders cleaned out. I would recommend products like SeaFoam. Seafoam is designed to clean out your intake and cylinders of any excess build up of carbon....carbon build up is probably the most common cause of enigne pinging.



After the Seafoam treatment, you should insure that your EGR system is running properly. Usually you will get a CEL if there is a problem with the EGR, but it never hurts to check. if the EGR system injects a bit of exhaust gas into the intake air stream which reduces combustion chamber temperatures because the exhaust gas has already been burned, so it is considered "Inert" and does not contribute anything to the combustion process but reduces combustion temperatures..



If you do not see anything wrong with the EGR valve and not getting any CEL lights and you are sure that your engine is cleaned of excessive carbon, then you may be using a gasoline that is below the minimum 87 octane required.



You may want to try filling up with regular 87 octane gas at a different gas station, just in case someone is selling a cheaper grade of gasoline that does not meet 87 octane specs. Actually, it might be the first thing to check...try a different brand of gas at a different gas station and see it that makes a difference! If not, then you may have a problem with carbon build up or an EGR problem.

...Rich
 
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Stacy, you asked about the timing chain rattle. If you hear an engine rattle at 2nd gear at 2400 rpm, especially when accelerating or climbing a hill, that's it.



You asked "Is my motor on it's last leg since it has this rattle? Should I just drive it until it dies"



My plan is to just drive it, while avoiding the conditions that cause the rattle. When I hear the rattle, I immediately ease up on the gas pedal so that it stops. After some experience listening for it, you learn when it is likely, and it's easy to avoid. My hope is that by avoiding the rattle, I'll avoid any trauma to the chain and thereby to the engine. Don't know how long that will work.



I think the rattle problem arises from broken plastic bits on the "cassette" that guides the chain. So it seems to me that the rattle serves as an audible indicator that the chain is displaced considerably from its usual path and is hitting something on the cassette. My logic is that by simply avoiding the rattle I'm avoiding having the chain displace itself to extreme positions within the cassette, and I'm hoping that I'll thereby get a longer life before the chain causes the engine to self destruct.



If instead of doing nothing you want to fix the front chain, I believe that does not require removing the engine. The rear chain is different, or so I've read on this site.
 
Stacy,

To clarify my statement... "Timing Chain rattle is a mechanical problem and does not go away by simply using premium gas". You may need another Seafoam treatment. You also need to check for vacuum leaks and be sure that the EGR valves is clean and operating correctly.



...Rich
 
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"What's the best way to test for vacuum leaks?"



While the truck is sitting and idling, carefully spray starter fluid in suspect areas.

Listen for RPM changes.





 
I have also used a squirt bottle of water. If there is a vaccum leak. The motor will stumble.....
 
I usually use a small propane tank used for soldering pipes....Slip a piece of hose over the torch nozzle and use that to probe around the intake manifold. The engine will rev up when you move the propane over or near a vacuum leak.



...Rich
 
Thanks for the comments everybody. After listening more, I'm pretty sure it's the timing chain rattle. I have no plans to pull the engine and replace parts so I'm just going to drive it until I can buy a new vehicle or it dies....whichever comes first. I really want a vehicle that will tow more anyway so I guess this is my excuse to start saving and get one. I appreciate the help.
 
Well, I tried to replace the right rear spring/hydraulic tensioner. Boy, was that a mistake. My truck immediately went from having a little timing chain noise to sounding terrible. I put the original tensioner back in but it still sounds the same. So, realistically, how long can I drive it like this until the engine goes? I can't afford to buy a new vehicle right now and can't afford to fix this one. What a piece of crap design from Ford...not a happy camper right now.
 
I'm guessing that you can drive it until the chain breaks !



Seriously, I don't know that anyone can guess how long it will last....depends on how worn the chain and tensioners are? Even then they would have had to experience a timing chain failure.



Remember that if the timing chain breaks you could experience a catastrophic failure that can destroy the engine....Then what will the trade-in or value of your truck be without an engine?



Personally, I would get estimates to find out how much it would cost to fix the chain and tensioners. Then determine what your truck is worth based on the condition of everything else, and what similar trucks are selling for in your area. It may or may not be worth fixing, but if you are not ready to buy an new truck soon, you might find that getting it fixed keeps you on the road, longer and will improve the resale value when you are ready for your new truck.



...Rich

 
I just changed the oil and used 10W-40 in an attempt to quiet the rattle. It works! I can't hear a rattle at all now. I know it's just masking the problem but since I can't fix it right now, I figure that's better than nothing.
 

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