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Chris M 2

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Nov 5, 2007
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Location
Dayton, OH
Well, I finally gave in and took my Trac to the shop, because I had the sputter/stall syndrome AGAIN on three different trips today. :(



The mechanic that will work on my truck was very conscientious and asked a lot of questions, many about the common fixes we often recommend here on the site. Said he wants to solve the problem and won't recommend any part purchases or fixes unless he's sure it'll do the trick (yeah, we'll see...) ;)



This shop came highly recommended from a friend who only takes his Ford truck there, so I'm hoping for the best and trying to stay optimistic. If they fix the problem, I'll be sure to give them a good review here.
 
Good luck and hope they keep thier word. If they do, then you may want to stick with them. They are few and far in-between. When you find a mechanic that won't rip you off by replacing parts until they find the actual cause of the problem, you need to keep with them.;)
 
Chris, got my fingers crossed that they work out for you. A good mechanic is hard to come by.



Of all places, I have become a fan of Danny at the local Meineke. Went in for a rotation, alignment and balancing. Since I didn't have any references it really didn't matter where I went. Came back two hours later and he noted that he needed to take it for a quick test run. I asked if I could go along and he explain what he was paying attention to and why. He agreed.



Not only did he go into a lot of detail but he told me that did the rotation and balancing but not the alignment. As it was only about 1/16th off then he said it would probably have set things more out of alignment to even try to fix that amount. Walked out the door for pennies and I totally will go back there. Either for work or to ask Danny where he recommends for other types of work that might be needed.



I wouldn't have know if he didn't do the alignment but still charged me for it anyways. Geez, I wouldn't have known the difference if I was sitting in the truck and he told me he did it. I would have said, "OK":blink: (I really am trying to get better about my mechanical education. Which is why I spend so much time reading the posts here. Great group of people with lots of knowledge)



Cheers to everybody and keep the posts coming
 
XXXX I'll keep my fingers crossed forya too ChrisM. It is good that he ask many questions. It helps him to narrow things down.
 
Here's the lowdown from the shop where I took the Trac:



* No codes thrown at all

* Fuel pressure is at 65 psi, top of the operating range, so it's not a fuel flow problem

* Tech simulated damp conditions, no problems there (it's a rare sunny day here in Dayton, OH)

* They drove it 16 miles on five different trips, and could not reproduce the problem

* Ran full set of diagnostics on the PCM; nothing



The tech who examined the Trac is a long-time, very experienced guy with many years at a Ford/Mazda dealer and at this shop. He took a LOT of time to explain everything he tried, every test he ran, and answered all my questions and then some.



Though he could not prove it diagnostically, he believes, based on his years of experience with Fords and based on a service bulletin he printed and gave to me, that the IAC is shot or defective. He said he has seen this and similar problems usually solved with a new IAC. The service bulletin he gave me listed the exact problem I'm having (stalling and hesitation during acceleration) and stated in 95% of such cases, when no codes are thrown and no other cause can be located (like this case), replacing the IAC solves the issue.



He would have fixed it himself but said I should save the cash and do it myself, which is the plan at this time.



I found this place to be very professional, very thorough, and honest. The place is Mike's Kar Kare, Kettering, OH.
 
In another post you said that you were driving down the road and the truck just sputtered and died. If you were accelerating or at a steady cruise and not decelerating then the IAC is going to do very little to solve your problem. The IAC only comes into play when the vehicle is idling or decelerating. If you were at a cruise or accelerating and the IAC slammed shut all of a sudden it still would not casue the vehicle to stall due to the throttle plate being open. For any vehicle that just mysteriously sputters/stalls while driving along at steady throttle the 3 things I look very closely at are the crankshaft position sensor, the camshaft position sensor and the mass airflow sensor.



I know intermittent problems can be very hard to track down but IMO replacing the IAC for a driveability concern that has nothing to do with idling or decelerating is kind of like replacing the radio antennae becasue your power window won't work...that dog don't hunt.



 
The IAC can be the reason a Trac dies while driving down the road. Just letting off the gas for a moment can cause the engine to call on the IAC for idle control. It it's not working right, it can die right there on the spot.
 
Here's what the bulletin said... sounds exactly like what my Trac is doing...

----------------------------

Fuel Delivery and Air Induction: By Symptom

Engine Control – No Start/Hard Start/Rough Idle

Article No.

03-3-5



02/17/03



DRIVABILITY – IDEL AIR CONTROL (IAC) VALVE

DIAGNOSTIC SERVICE TIPS



FORD:

2000-2003 TAURUS

2002 THUNDERBIRD

2000-2003 EXPLORER, RANGER

2001-2003 EXPLORER SPORT TRAC, EXPLORER SPORT



LINCOLN:

2000-2002 LS



MERCURY:

2000-2003 SABLE, MOUNTAINEER



ISSUE



Some vehicles may exhibit drivability conditions.



These may include:



^ No start/Difficult to start/Stall

^ Low idle

^ Rough idle

^ High idle

^ Hesitation/surge while accelerating or at steady speed



These conditions may be intermittent with no Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC) and no Malfunction Indicator lamp (MIL). In some cases, DTC and MIL may be evident.



ACTION



Trouble cannot be identified with 95% of returned Idle Air Control (IAC) valves. The following procedure is supplemental information to normal diagnostics to facilitate accurate information of malfunctioning valves. These symptoms would include engine stall, hard start, crank/no start, idling problems, and Idle Speed Control System related DTC’s.



(A check sheet appears at this point in the bulletin)



If the service writer uses the worksheet (Figure 2) for all drivability concerns including stalls it will assist the technician making a correct repair the first time.



Perform normal diagnostics.



SERVICE INFORMATION



NOTE

It may not be possible to duplicate the customer concern. Although the condition may not be duplicated, it is recommended that any evaluation of the IAC valve be done in accordance with the following service procedure.



OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES: NONE

WARRANTY STATUS: INFORMATION ONLY

OASIS CODES: 602300 603300, 607000, 607400, 607700, 608000, 608400, 611000, 618400, 619400, 698298
 
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It appears that you don't have the entire bulletin or didn't post it all, on the bulletin a page or so down it says in caps



IF THE ENGINE STALLED WHILE THE VEHICLE WAS IN GEAR AND MOVING THE POSSIBILITY OF THE IAC VALVE CAUSING THIS IS UNLIKELY UNLESS IT OCCURRED ON DECELERATION.



Just momentarily lifting your foot off of the throttle is not enough time for an iac to cause a stalling issue at cruise rpm. If I am not mistaken for the first 5 seconds you lift your foot off the throttle while at cruise the only thing that the pcm does is turn off the injectors or drastically reduce the on time of the injectors. The IAC doesn't come into play during this time.
 
So your saying that you were driving down the road and took your foot off the gas for not even a half a second and it died? Obviously in your case that fixed the problem but I can honestly say that I have never ran into that in 20+ years of working on these things, usually they will sputter for a little bit until the idle gets low enough and then die, I have never had one just instantly shut off. In Chris ms' case though we can count out the IAC due to the fact that it has happened on acceleration and the IAC has absolutely zero effect during acceleration.
 
By the way, ask Mike if he ever had a shop in Toledo, Ohio. I had a really good mechanic for a while who owned Mikes Kar Care here. He closed down his shop here, and I THINK he moved to Kettering when his wife got a great job offer there. Sure do miss him, as he was one of the good ones.
 

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