TomT
Well-Known Member
Hope this doesn't affect the new ST's.
Ford announces U.S. plant closings and layoffs
- Thread starter TomT
- Start date
Help Support Ford SportTrac Forum:
Frank Marano
Well-Known Member
probably not since the ST is made in Kentucky and not Michigan........those lay offs are in Michigan.
TomT
Well-Known Member
Weird. I read the whole article and did not see anything that said the closings would only be in Michigan.
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
Glad Ford sold Hertz when they did and got us off that sinking ship.
Robert Poole
Well-Known Member
I'm a Ford employee and I do have something to say. Times are going to be tight and a bit lean for the next couple of years. But Ford is in a lot better shape then they were in the early 80's During that time Ford almost went out of business, but thanks to the popularity of the new Taurus it basically revitilized the company product line. The situation is a bit different today, back then the market was basically dominated by the big 3 plus the imports were making inroads into the market. Today there are 6 major players in the market, Ford realistically has to close a few plants to keep production within market share. Today Ford has the capacity of building for 24% of the market and we have about 19%. So we have overcapacity, so Ford has to rebate and incentive the hell out of the cars to keep the factories going, that hurts resale and residual value of the vehicles. We are going to flex manufactureing to better keep pace with the tastes of the marketplace. those plants that are not able to adapt to flex manufactureing will not be kept open. That is smart business. We are in a hell of a better position then GM right now.
Y'all have a good one
Bob
Y'all have a good one
Bob
Robert,
Overcapacity?? I'm sure you are only repeating what Ford has told all it's employees, but I interpret that to mean that Ford simply made more vehicles than they thought they could sell. GM did exactly the same thing. The main difference with GM is they make 5 or 6 different variations of the same vehicle and sell them under different names with a wide variety of prices, while Fordusually only makes two variations, Ford & Mercury.
GM makes a vehicle with mediocre popularity, and the next year every division has there own variation of the same vehicle and that just dilutes their own sales. They are competing with themselves.
After all these years, the American automobile manufacturers still don't get it. When gas prices go up, for what ever reason, American car sales go right down the toilet. Most foreign vehicles with nearly equal HP get much better performance and gas mileage overall than most American vehilces. I'm not comparing EPA gas mileage ratings since they are oftern very inaccuarate.
I have a 1990 Honda Accord with a 130 HP engine that was EPA rated at 21 City and 29 Highway. On any given day I easily get 25 MPG in town and 30 MPG on the highway and I have gotten 33 MPG on numerous trips.
I also have a 2003 Saturn Ion with a 140 HP engine. It is rated a 26 MPG City and 33 MPG on the Highway....What a joke! I rarely get over 20 MPG in town and the only highway trip yielded only 26 MPG. To make thinks worse, the Honda rides and handles better, is much more comfortable, and is noticably faster with less HP.
I do like my Sport Trac since this is my second one in 5 years. Neither Sport Trac has given me any problems and I am not complaining about gas mileage since the Sport Trac gets very respectable mileage for it's size and power when compared to the Saturn.
I just think that American auto manufacturers are about 5 years behind most foreign manufacturers when building the best all around vehicles in any category.
...Rich
Overcapacity?? I'm sure you are only repeating what Ford has told all it's employees, but I interpret that to mean that Ford simply made more vehicles than they thought they could sell. GM did exactly the same thing. The main difference with GM is they make 5 or 6 different variations of the same vehicle and sell them under different names with a wide variety of prices, while Fordusually only makes two variations, Ford & Mercury.
GM makes a vehicle with mediocre popularity, and the next year every division has there own variation of the same vehicle and that just dilutes their own sales. They are competing with themselves.
After all these years, the American automobile manufacturers still don't get it. When gas prices go up, for what ever reason, American car sales go right down the toilet. Most foreign vehicles with nearly equal HP get much better performance and gas mileage overall than most American vehilces. I'm not comparing EPA gas mileage ratings since they are oftern very inaccuarate.
I have a 1990 Honda Accord with a 130 HP engine that was EPA rated at 21 City and 29 Highway. On any given day I easily get 25 MPG in town and 30 MPG on the highway and I have gotten 33 MPG on numerous trips.
I also have a 2003 Saturn Ion with a 140 HP engine. It is rated a 26 MPG City and 33 MPG on the Highway....What a joke! I rarely get over 20 MPG in town and the only highway trip yielded only 26 MPG. To make thinks worse, the Honda rides and handles better, is much more comfortable, and is noticably faster with less HP.
I do like my Sport Trac since this is my second one in 5 years. Neither Sport Trac has given me any problems and I am not complaining about gas mileage since the Sport Trac gets very respectable mileage for it's size and power when compared to the Saturn.
I just think that American auto manufacturers are about 5 years behind most foreign manufacturers when building the best all around vehicles in any category.
...Rich
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
The company to watch for now is Kia/Hyundai. They have made more progress in quality in the past 5 years than Ford has in the past 20. The Koreans are nearing the Japanese in quality on their automobiles.
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Overcapacity means that the company has manufacturing capacity to make many more cars than they can sell. It is more efficient (cost per unit) to run fewer plants at 100% than to run many at 75%. This is the same reason we haven't had any new refineries built--oil companies have gotten their production efficiencies up at their old refineries and were able to squeeze out more product to meet demand (but unfortunately the demand now exceeds their capacity).
I don't have the figures readily available, but I'll bet Ford's annual sales volume (in units produced) is much lower than it was 10 years ago.
Of course, Rich is probably right that by selling off Hertz, now Ford lost a major customer of its Tauruses and 500s.
GM is in way worse shape than Ford. It has way too many plants running-- GM probably needs to close something like 1/2 of its assembly plants to get competitive again.
I don't have the figures readily available, but I'll bet Ford's annual sales volume (in units produced) is much lower than it was 10 years ago.
Of course, Rich is probably right that by selling off Hertz, now Ford lost a major customer of its Tauruses and 500s.
GM is in way worse shape than Ford. It has way too many plants running-- GM probably needs to close something like 1/2 of its assembly plants to get competitive again.
Wes Davis
Well-Known Member
I owned a Hyundai Santa Fe. The only reason I traded it in for my Sport Trac is because I wanted to buy American and I had the cash laying around. I am not going to put this forum through the embarrassment(sp) of me describing the differences in fit, finish and general overall quality. Let me just say that my Hyundai did not have steering shudder and cupped tires from day one.
Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
Gavin,
Here's some numbers for you. Not quite 10 years, but the numbers are there. I'm sure if you could get 1994 numbers, the difference would be even more drastic.
In 1998 Ford sold 3,302,794 units.
In 2004 Ford sold 2,778,678 units.
So far, through September Ford has sold 2,114,450 units, down slighty at the same time from last year.
Here's some numbers for you. Not quite 10 years, but the numbers are there. I'm sure if you could get 1994 numbers, the difference would be even more drastic.
In 1998 Ford sold 3,302,794 units.
In 2004 Ford sold 2,778,678 units.
So far, through September Ford has sold 2,114,450 units, down slighty at the same time from last year.
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Yep. US automakers are losing numbers and losing market share.
They don't need all the production capacity.
I'll bet GM's numbers are even more horrific!
They don't need all the production capacity.
I'll bet GM's numbers are even more horrific!
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Darin, I lived in Korea for a year. You would not believe what they have there. Seoul is the third largest city in the World with over 22 Million residents. Their new International airport looks like a Space Port on a Sci-Fi flick. I have never seen an airport so impressive and clean.
If you go to an electronics store, you will see items that won't even be available in the US for two or three more years. Their phones surpass ours. Their internet surpasses ours, and the government has run a broadband connection into nearly every home in the Country.
I am proud of America, and I know we surpass other countries in ingenuity, but frankly I think the Koreans are kicking our butts in the telecommunications, electronics and automotive industries. If the Chinese imitate their progress, the US will be a small player in the World economy in about 50 years.
If you go to an electronics store, you will see items that won't even be available in the US for two or three more years. Their phones surpass ours. Their internet surpasses ours, and the government has run a broadband connection into nearly every home in the Country.
I am proud of America, and I know we surpass other countries in ingenuity, but frankly I think the Koreans are kicking our butts in the telecommunications, electronics and automotive industries. If the Chinese imitate their progress, the US will be a small player in the World economy in about 50 years.
Nelson, Europe is no different.
Did you maybe consider that our "free enterprise system" isn't that good for the citizans?
Tom
Did you maybe consider that our "free enterprise system" isn't that good for the citizans?
Tom
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
I lived in Portugal and Turkey (over two years each) and traveled extensively in Spain, France and Germany. I wasn't very impressed with the European economies. Their GSM cell phone network was the only thing that impressed me. Everything else seemed a step down from the US.
Mass transit system is simply awesome. Cell phone networks are great and incoming calls on your phone is free. Landline phone systems are very cool. Need a taxi, it is only 4 numbers. Calling a hotel room, just remove the 0 at the end of the number and insert the room number. No need to ask the switchboard operator to transfer you to a room.
Some things are really odd. I think that has more to do with customs of the country then anything else.
Tom
Some things are really odd. I think that has more to do with customs of the country then anything else.
Tom
Mike Wilson
Well-Known Member
Robert, Richard, Nelson, Gavin, etc...,
You are all correct.
We, or I, as an auto assembler, can only put together the parts that the R@D,
Engineers, and Resource Departments give us out on "the floor".
If we have poorly designed parts, made out of the cheapest possible materials,
and of the lowest quality workmanship (thanks to non-union, poorly paid, don't
give-a-care workers that can barely feed their families), the final product (car) is
obviously not going to be of superior quality, but not for lack of trying, on our part.
I don't blame our sub-contractors, (now) such as Delphi, Visteon, etc...
I blame G.M., Ford, and especially (Dialmer?) Chrysler, for selling out the
American worker in favor of larger profits for the top executives at the expense
of everyone else.
I'll give you another thought:
"The mind is nothing without the body, to act on it's thoughts and ideas, and
the body is nothing without the mind to give it direction and purpose..."
Analogy; G.M. is the mind, the U.A.W. Auto Worker, for G.M., is the body.
I can't assemble the cars, and design them at the same time, no more than
G.M. can design them, and assemble them at the same time.
Wake up , G.M., and quit sending all of your money overseas!:angry:
You are all correct.
We, or I, as an auto assembler, can only put together the parts that the R@D,
Engineers, and Resource Departments give us out on "the floor".
If we have poorly designed parts, made out of the cheapest possible materials,
and of the lowest quality workmanship (thanks to non-union, poorly paid, don't
give-a-care workers that can barely feed their families), the final product (car) is
obviously not going to be of superior quality, but not for lack of trying, on our part.
I don't blame our sub-contractors, (now) such as Delphi, Visteon, etc...
I blame G.M., Ford, and especially (Dialmer?) Chrysler, for selling out the
American worker in favor of larger profits for the top executives at the expense
of everyone else.
I'll give you another thought:
"The mind is nothing without the body, to act on it's thoughts and ideas, and
the body is nothing without the mind to give it direction and purpose..."
Analogy; G.M. is the mind, the U.A.W. Auto Worker, for G.M., is the body.
I can't assemble the cars, and design them at the same time, no more than
G.M. can design them, and assemble them at the same time.
Wake up , G.M., and quit sending all of your money overseas!:angry:
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Don't forget it is the Mind who is sending all the work to the cheapest bidding suppliers, and then they pressure the suppliers for across the board price cuts of 10% every year.
