The sales numbers show people don't care.
People still don't care. John Kasich is a perfect example. Part of Lehman Brothers and part of that fiasco. Turns around and becomes Governor or Ohio.
Tom
Ford Anti-Bailout Ad Goes Viral
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The sales numbers show people don't care.
People still don't care. John Kasich is a perfect example. Part of Lehman Brothers and part of that fiasco. Turns around and becomes Governor or Ohio.
Tom
Robert Caffyn
Well-Known Member
I have to agree with the majority here, I think it was an appropriate response to other negative ad campains. I saw that commercial and thought "Its about time". Now Tom, I love ya man, but even though GM may be the top selling vehicles, we all have to remember, Ford is a single marque. Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac and GMC are all under the same GM umbrella! Of course four companies can outsell just one. Its simple math. Bob
Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
Ohio is a cool state and all (Despite having a scarily Corporatist capital city), but if I had a choice, I'd rather be a Governor than Ohio :grin::grin:
Caymen,
As previously mentioned...GM is and has always been a much larger corporation than Ford...I would expect them to outsell Ford. People will by the vehicle that they perceive best suits there needs and budget.
As for People not caring: I think they do care, but they never had any say in the bailout and don't necessarily hold it against GM or Chrysler they hold it against the politician...I think they will show just how much they care at the voting booth...and it has already started.
...Rich
As previously mentioned...GM is and has always been a much larger corporation than Ford...I would expect them to outsell Ford. People will by the vehicle that they perceive best suits there needs and budget.
As for People not caring: I think they do care, but they never had any say in the bailout and don't necessarily hold it against GM or Chrysler they hold it against the politician...I think they will show just how much they care at the voting booth...and it has already started.
...Rich
Last edited by a moderator:
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Bob C,
Isn't Ford MoCo also and umbrella? Ford, Lincoln, Volvo, Mazda (and not that long ago, Mercury)?
TJR
Isn't Ford MoCo also and umbrella? Ford, Lincoln, Volvo, Mazda (and not that long ago, Mercury)?
TJR
TJR,
Ford does not have the same sole ownership in all those car makers as does GM...GM outright owns the vehicles under it's umbrella... Caddy, Buick, Chevy, GMC, and previously Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Saturn were all separate Divisions of GM
Ford is only part owner in Mazda (probably the largest part) but it is a joint venture to build Mazda's in the US. Mazda in Japan recently announced that they wanted to withdraw from building Mazda's in the US.
Volvo is also a similar joint venture with Ford (who also owns the majority of Volvo) but they build their vehicles more or less without much of Ford's input. I think Jaguar was also a similar arrangement as volvo, but Ford did not get the money from that prestigest brand as they expected. Ford sold Jaguar, and since then the company has made some major progress in improving their vehicle brand.
Size and more sales alone does not necessarily mean "Profitable". I think at one time GM was loosing about $1600 for every vehicle they sold. Part of GM's problem was that they were their own wost competition. They had way too many models that shared the same platform across all of their Divisions. That let them have a bigger market share but overall was not as cost effective as they originally thought. Many people do not want to pay a few thousand $$ more for Chevy because of a little bit more trim and a Buick, Pontiac, or Olds name tag.
...Rich
Ford does not have the same sole ownership in all those car makers as does GM...GM outright owns the vehicles under it's umbrella... Caddy, Buick, Chevy, GMC, and previously Pontiac, Oldsmobile, and Saturn were all separate Divisions of GM
Ford is only part owner in Mazda (probably the largest part) but it is a joint venture to build Mazda's in the US. Mazda in Japan recently announced that they wanted to withdraw from building Mazda's in the US.
Volvo is also a similar joint venture with Ford (who also owns the majority of Volvo) but they build their vehicles more or less without much of Ford's input. I think Jaguar was also a similar arrangement as volvo, but Ford did not get the money from that prestigest brand as they expected. Ford sold Jaguar, and since then the company has made some major progress in improving their vehicle brand.
Size and more sales alone does not necessarily mean "Profitable". I think at one time GM was loosing about $1600 for every vehicle they sold. Part of GM's problem was that they were their own wost competition. They had way too many models that shared the same platform across all of their Divisions. That let them have a bigger market share but overall was not as cost effective as they originally thought. Many people do not want to pay a few thousand $$ more for Chevy because of a little bit more trim and a Buick, Pontiac, or Olds name tag.
...Rich
I am pretty sure Mazda is on their own now. Ford bailed Mazda out of bankruptcy. Ford saved Mazda from death. This was not to "help Mazda sell cars in the USA". Mazda has been selling car in the USA for many yeas before Ford took over. Ford has now let Mazda go back on their own.
Ironically enough, Mazda kept Kia for going under. Ever hear of the Kia Sephia? It was powered by a Mazda 1.8L engine. The suspension is also Mazda. Actually, the first model of the Kia Sephia was built using Mazda designs.
Ford sold Volvo to Geely Motors (China) a few years back.
GM sales this year are up over last year. Some reports as high as 10%.
Americans don't care.
Tom
Caymen,
OK, I accept your opinion and view point, but we will just have to wait and see if American's really care when November 2012 rolls around..:grin:
Also, I never said that Ford bought Mazda so they could sell vehicles in the US...They had been doing that for years. Yes Ford bought up most of Mazda because they were sinking as was Volvo and Jaguar... but Ford sold off their interest because they were not making the money they expected...and I am not saying that there is anything wrong with Mazda, Volvo, or Jaguar.
My point, which you helped me prove by Ford selling off some of their excess divisions, is that GM, with all it's divisions, is a much larger corporation and I would expect them to sell more vehicles. That does not directly equate to the American public approving of GM and Chrysler taking BailOut money, they are just going to buy the vehicle that best suits their budget and needs. It does not mean they have forgoten or don't care about the Bailout,
just because they continue to buy GM or Chrysler products. They had no choice in the debate regarding the BailOut and so there was little they can do. I'm sure some are happy that they are getting a good deal on a GM vehicle. and others may feel they are sticking it to GM. But those sales only represent a small portion of the voting public. When the elections come in 2012, I think the American voters will have "Total Recall" about the BailOut and there will be some politicians on the unemployment line...:bwahaha:
...Rich
OK, I accept your opinion and view point, but we will just have to wait and see if American's really care when November 2012 rolls around..:grin:
Also, I never said that Ford bought Mazda so they could sell vehicles in the US...They had been doing that for years. Yes Ford bought up most of Mazda because they were sinking as was Volvo and Jaguar... but Ford sold off their interest because they were not making the money they expected...and I am not saying that there is anything wrong with Mazda, Volvo, or Jaguar.
My point, which you helped me prove by Ford selling off some of their excess divisions, is that GM, with all it's divisions, is a much larger corporation and I would expect them to sell more vehicles. That does not directly equate to the American public approving of GM and Chrysler taking BailOut money, they are just going to buy the vehicle that best suits their budget and needs. It does not mean they have forgoten or don't care about the Bailout,
just because they continue to buy GM or Chrysler products. They had no choice in the debate regarding the BailOut and so there was little they can do. I'm sure some are happy that they are getting a good deal on a GM vehicle. and others may feel they are sticking it to GM. But those sales only represent a small portion of the voting public. When the elections come in 2012, I think the American voters will have "Total Recall" about the BailOut and there will be some politicians on the unemployment line...:bwahaha:
...Rich
My prediction...
GM sales will continue to grow by leaps and bounds.
The same idiots in Washington will remain in office.
Chrysler sales will continue to fluster like they always have.
A select few will bitch about government bailouts.
John Kasich will continue to eff up Ohio and the tards in this state will continue to vote for him, like they did with Taft.
Ford sales will continue to remain relativly flat no matter what they do.
Honda will still think the Ridgeline is a "true half ton truck".
Tom
GM sales will continue to grow by leaps and bounds.
The same idiots in Washington will remain in office.
Chrysler sales will continue to fluster like they always have.
A select few will bitch about government bailouts.
John Kasich will continue to eff up Ohio and the tards in this state will continue to vote for him, like they did with Taft.
Ford sales will continue to remain relativly flat no matter what they do.
Honda will still think the Ridgeline is a "true half ton truck".
Tom
I don't have a problem with that. I don't have a problem with people buying GM products. I just think it was a moral failing and unfair business practice. Doesn't change a thing concerning my behavior, though. I've always bled blue.
I don't think looking at sales is a reliable indicator on people's attitude toward the acceptance of bailout money. Many people have a love hate/relationship with Wal-Mart but still support the largest company in the world. People still make economic choices over their emotional choices.
To be completely honest, I've always said this: if I'm going to look at new half ton trucks, I'm going to look at the F150 and the Silverado. Whichever has the better deal between the two gets my money. Now, though, I think a few thousand more for a Ford wouldn't matter. Mostly since I think the Ford is a better product, but especially now because a moral component has been added. Now, car wise, I'd buy a Honda before a GM.
Caymen,
Remember that GM paid back the BailOut money. A solar energy company in California received a $500 million as part of Obama's project to develop alternative power. That company is all over the news since they have filed for bankruptcy within about 3 years after gettin the taxpayers loan....I suspect that they will not be the last company that took money and will ultimately declare bankruptcy.
The fact that GM paid the money back and is now making money, has no real relationship to the American taxpayer not caring about the bailout. The difference will be in the upcoming elections. Even if the Ohio governor gets reelected does not mean that people don't care. They just are not holding GM responsible, It's the politicians that they hold responsible.
....Rich
Remember that GM paid back the BailOut money. A solar energy company in California received a $500 million as part of Obama's project to develop alternative power. That company is all over the news since they have filed for bankruptcy within about 3 years after gettin the taxpayers loan....I suspect that they will not be the last company that took money and will ultimately declare bankruptcy.
The fact that GM paid the money back and is now making money, has no real relationship to the American taxpayer not caring about the bailout. The difference will be in the upcoming elections. Even if the Ohio governor gets reelected does not mean that people don't care. They just are not holding GM responsible, It's the politicians that they hold responsible.
....Rich
