JDBoxes,
I said that Germany has been using these traffic light cameras as well as photo radar for over 40 years. They ticket the owner of the vehicle, not the driver. I know that goes against the sensibility of most Americans, but there are a number of similiar situations in the USA that the owner is responsible for what happens with their vehicle.
I said that it might be something new to the American justice system, but in traffic court you do not have to prove a defendent is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but only by a proponderance of evidence. So that fact that the photo does not show a face, the owner may have to prove that someone else was driving and bring that person into court and admit they were driving.
Another little know fact is that some of the newer traffic light cameras also take a photo of the front of the vehicle that captures the drivers face very clearly. But since they do not know the actual name of the driver, the Owner is sent a ticket usually with one of the photos attached. You may not know if they took a front photo, and if you ask for a jury trial, and the prosecutor shows the front photo and you are driving, I pretty sure you will be convicted, and you might be charged with perjury for good measure.
But your original statement said that you have the right to face the Witness, but who was the witness? The camera? My point was that is not what the Constitution says. It says you have the right to face your accusor, not a witness. You have the right to cross-exam a witness, and the camera technician can be cross examined as to the accuracy and reliability of the camera, but the picture speaks volumes.
Since most cameras will take a series of photos giving the date and time, as well as your speed and how long after the light turned red that you triggered the camera by crossing the sensor. That's a pretty tall order of evidence to climb over, but you are welcome to try.
As a final note: Many cities in many states are getting these cameras because the evidence they provide has continuously stood up in court as valid evidence and they are getting a lot of convictions. Even a larger percentage of convictions than they get with radar/lazer guns, because those can be operated improperly and give false readings.
...Rich
I said that Germany has been using these traffic light cameras as well as photo radar for over 40 years. They ticket the owner of the vehicle, not the driver. I know that goes against the sensibility of most Americans, but there are a number of similiar situations in the USA that the owner is responsible for what happens with their vehicle.
I said that it might be something new to the American justice system, but in traffic court you do not have to prove a defendent is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but only by a proponderance of evidence. So that fact that the photo does not show a face, the owner may have to prove that someone else was driving and bring that person into court and admit they were driving.
Another little know fact is that some of the newer traffic light cameras also take a photo of the front of the vehicle that captures the drivers face very clearly. But since they do not know the actual name of the driver, the Owner is sent a ticket usually with one of the photos attached. You may not know if they took a front photo, and if you ask for a jury trial, and the prosecutor shows the front photo and you are driving, I pretty sure you will be convicted, and you might be charged with perjury for good measure.
But your original statement said that you have the right to face the Witness, but who was the witness? The camera? My point was that is not what the Constitution says. It says you have the right to face your accusor, not a witness. You have the right to cross-exam a witness, and the camera technician can be cross examined as to the accuracy and reliability of the camera, but the picture speaks volumes.
Since most cameras will take a series of photos giving the date and time, as well as your speed and how long after the light turned red that you triggered the camera by crossing the sensor. That's a pretty tall order of evidence to climb over, but you are welcome to try.
As a final note: Many cities in many states are getting these cameras because the evidence they provide has continuously stood up in court as valid evidence and they are getting a lot of convictions. Even a larger percentage of convictions than they get with radar/lazer guns, because those can be operated improperly and give false readings.
...Rich