Great news for 07 V8 ST Owners

[Aaron Yarbough]

Last week in another thread someone eluded to an updated TSB that had been released for the 4.6L ST and I promised to follow up on it. Well Saturday morning I took my ST to North Central Ford here in the Dallas area where my freind is the Assistant Service Manager to inquire about the new TSB and this is what I found. The new TSB 07-10-12 was released by Ford on May 14, 2007 and it resolves most of the issues that we have been complaining about with the 4.6L to include high idle speed on cold start up, engine fan noise on cold start up, shift hesitation and more.



After having the PCM and TCM updated per the TSB, initially my truck didn't run so well but I immediately new what the problem was. As soon as I got home I disconnected the battery for about 30 minutes and then reconnected it to force the PCM to relearn everything. After that it has run better than it did before. On cold startups, instead of the engine revving excessively high (IMO), it now starts at about 1000RPM and runs nice and quiet. The transmission shifts are crisper and more positive and downshifts are faster with less input needed from your right foot. I even noticed that the Message Center's fuel economy bar graph responds faster to changes in engine speed and engine loads than it did before.



*My only caveat is that I have Todd Z's moddified throttle body installed on my 07 V8 ST. I didn't remove it before taking it to Ford on Saturday. I say that to say that if your throttle response is not as good as what I have expressed then it is probably because of that. Even so, YOU WILL see improvements in your ST's driveability and performance after the PCM/TCM update.



I have posted TSB 07-10-12 in my library for everyone to see first hand.



I recommend that if/when you have this TSB performed that you request them to disconnect the battery to force the PCM to relearn or you will probably experience the same poor shifting that I initially experienced. If they act like they don't want to do it(because it is NOT specified on the TSB), then threaten to give them a bad rating on their Customer Service survey and see if they are a bit more accomodating then.



Edit: As suggested by mdm, pull Fuse #7 under the hood which will allow you to retain your radio settings and keyless entry settings as opposed to disconnecting the battery and resetting everything like I did. DOH!

 

[KentheREALone Z]

Thanks!

I'm taking mine in.

Excellent post!!!!

 

[Dale McMurry]

Thanks for the update. I will take my ST in for this TSB update. Dale

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Remember, folks, this is a TSB, not a recall. If you truly have the symptoms described in the TSB then by all means discuss the issues and the TSB with your dealer. If you don't, please don't pester your dealer.



TJR

 

[Mark Santini]

Pester, shit,,,,,,,,,,,,they have to respect any TSB, right? I think all of us should put up a high five for Red's post. Thanks, Red,,,,,,,,,and HIGH FIVE for posting this important bit of information. I am ready to take mine to the dealer, anyway for a few other minor things, but now I will have a better reason for taking it in. I don't have any evident problems, as of now, but the shifting has always been questionable. Ford will only stay on my list if they take care of their own,,,,,,,,,,,,,,US!!!!!!!

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Cubber 07 says:

Pester, shit,,,,,,,,,,,,they have to respect any TSB, right?

Nope, they don't. They can consider a TSB as a "possible" resolution to any symptoms or issues that are reproducible on your vehicle. But a TSB is not a recall. Recalls are performed regardless of issue and as specified in the recall notice. TSBs are discretionary at the service manager and service tech's discretion.



Cubber also says:

I think all of us should put up a high five for Red's post. Thanks, Red,,,,,,,,,and HIGH FIVE for posting this important bit of information.

I agree. Thanks to Lil Red. I am just trying to educate people on the differences of TSBs and Recalls because my experience on this board is that so many think they are the same type of beast.



Cubber also says:

I don't have any evident problems, as of now, but the shifting has always been questionable. Ford will only stay on my list if they take care of their own,,,,,,,,,,,,,,US!!!!!!!

Good luck, but as I said, a TSB is one possible, recommended fix to a know, observable problem. If your dealer doesn't observe the problem they are unlikely to perform service recommended in the TSB.



TJR

 

[Kevin Palmer]

One question????



If you get the PCM update, which is a software update, not a hardware update and then remove your wire to the battery isn't the update lost?



I am pretty sure there is no capacitor or battery within the PCM to retain software updates.



?????



I no longer own my Trac, just bringing up a potential issue where you go to the time of getting to the dealer, getting the work done, (free or paying for it), then removing the power source to the PCM, and lose the program you just got... Am I missing something here?

 

[Aaron Yarbough]

TJR, I totally understand where you are coming from, but at the same time I look at it like an update to your Windows Operating System. You might be at home cruising along just fine with your current version, but when Microsoft comes out with a patch release then it's "usually" in your best interest to download it. Is it mandatory that you have it?, No, usually not. But why not have the latest and greatest software version on your PC and in this case on your truck?



I'm sure each ST owner will make their own decision on how they will proceed with this info, but I am 100% supportive of anyone getting this updated TSB done if it pertains to their vehicle. To Lil Red, Quality IS JOB 1!, and even though this is NOT a recall, it is an update that we all deserve to have if it applies to our vehicle.

 

[Aaron Yarbough]

If you get the PCM update, which is a software update, not a hardware update and then remove your wire to the battery isn't the update lost?

Coastie, the program is burned into the PCM, much like on your PC when you unplug it. Not exactly the same, but the exact same concept. When you start the truck, the truck's computer starts and reads the PCM's program much like your home PC reads the hard drive.



Edit: added Coastie's quote.

 

[WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs]

If you don't have the problem you can't inquire about the TSB. That is Ford's Policy. Unless, you want to be charged for the service.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Lil Red said:

TJR, I totally understand where you are coming from, but at the same time I look at it like an update to your Windows Operating System.

You can look at it like that, but the fact is TSB are NOT 'preventative', nor are they 'required', which is what the Windows Updates are in nature.



Lil Red also said:

I'm sure each ST owner will make their own decision on how they will proceed with this info, but I am 100% supportive of anyone getting this updated TSB done if it pertains to their vehicle.

The key words there are "if it pertains to their vehicle."



Lastly Lil Red said:

...even though this is NOT a recall, it is an update that we all deserve to have if it applies to our vehicle.

Again, "if it applies to our vehicle" are the key words.



You and I are saying the same thing at this point it seems.



TJR

 

[Aaron Yarbough]

If you don't have the problem you can't inquire about the TSB. That is Ford's Policy. Unless, you want to be charged for the service.

No disrespect to anyone but I get so gosh darn (trying to keep this PC) tired of people telling me/us why we can't get something done that it makes me freaking (i'm still trying) sick! Maybe it's just me, but when I spend my "hard earned" money on a product then guess what?, I want the absolute best FREAKIN product that they can possibly give me. If there is an updated PCM program that's available, then guess what? That probably means that there ARE issues with previous versions of the PCM code and that the NEWER, REVISED PCM code just might be better than the previous one. Now some of you can sit around here typing why we should not get this done to our trucks if you want to, but guess what?, I aint tryin to hear it.



I'm a results oriented person and currently Ford's "Policy" aint(is that a word?) given me (and many others) the results that we have paid for:angry:



Lastly, I WISH FORD WOULD EVEN FIX THEIR MOUTH TO TELL ME THAT I'M GOING TO BE CHARGED FOR AN UPDATE ON A VEHICLE THAT'S LESS THAN A YEAR OLD. Some body needs to read today's post about the canoe contest with the Japaneese! If you have not already read that post, please do so.... (whew, I think I made it without loosing my cool)

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Lil Red. I understand your frustration.



But please, consider this...



Many people here are TSB hypochondriacs; reading the TSBs then demanding the service be applied to their ST even if they haven't seen any of the symptoms yet.



By all means, if your ST is exhibiting the problems then lobby to get it reproduced and get the TSB done. But if it isn't, then count your blessings and please stay out of the shop because whether you like it or not the dealer is NOT required or obligated in any way to perform the service outlined in a TSB if the vehicle is not displaying the issue documented.



Thinking otherwise and acting otherwise will simply set you up for an adversarial encounter with the dealer and ultimately lead to them not being able to satisfy your unreasonable expectations.



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

Lil Red:



THANKS A BUNCH for the info and for posting the actual TSB! That was VERY HELPFUL!



My trac is at the dealer today (for the first time!) to rotate the tires and check the alignment, as well as to fix a goofy gas cap that is very hard to put on at times due to the tether "grabbing". I immediately e-mailed the service manager a copy of the TSB and called him to ask him to have them flash it in today.



(Stupid serice manager tried to brush me off and say "they always do all updates for every service visit", etc. I persisted and told him I specifically wanted this TSB done, so he finally told me he'd take a copy of the TSB out to the tech to "have him check on it".)



I'm with you--these updated software calibrations are no different than updated drivers, updates to Windows, or PRL updates for cell phones, etc. The automotive manufacturers should provide them as a matter of service, and it should also be possible for owners to do their own updates via phone, downloading over the web, etc.



I am, always amazed at how far behind the automotive industry is compared to the rest of the world with software and other common technologies, like audio equipment, etc.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Gavin said:

I am, always amazed at how far behind the automotive industry is compared to the rest of the world with software and other common technologies, like audio equipment, etc.

Yeah, I hear that. But I think in this case, the auto industry is taking a page from the medical profession playbook, e.g. "Do no harm!"



In a complex computer controlled, electro-mechanical system one shouldn't necessarily suspect that such updates will always "do no harm", especially when applied to those vehicles not exhibiting any of the issues they are meant to correct.



If it's not broke, don't fix it!



TJR

 

[Mark Santini]

TJR,,,,,,,,everything understood,,,,,,,the one thing that caught my eye in that TSB was under Symptoms: Inaccurate Message Center average fuel economy estimation,,,,,,,,,How is one to know that it is accurate, and why wouldn't one get the updated TSB or flash, or whatever you call it just for that one symptom?? Even if we aren't experiencing any of the other 'symptoms',,,,,,,,,we should be updated if that is one of the areas that is involved with the TSB,,,,,,,,,,,,right????

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Cubber 07,



Regarding your question as to whether or not one should demand the TSB service if the only "possible" (and you seem to imply uncertain) symptom is the "Inaccurate Message Center average fuel economy estimation" I guess my answer is that I wouldn't.



If I knew for sure the message center's estimate was inaccurate, then I would describe that issue to the dealer and let them know about the TSB. They might offer some other fix and if it did fix the issue I would be happy.



But if I wasn't aware of an estimation issue, or any other issue or symptom, I wouldn't do anything.



TJR

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

TJR is correct. If you take your vehicle into the dealer to get a TSB and the mechanic takes it for a drive and notices you don't have the problem, they do not have to "fix" it. That was "mechanic's 101" when I went to school. (Thus the reason I'm a x-ray tech now) The TSB is there for the mechanic's "map" when a vehicle comes in with the problem described within the TSB, so they know the steps on how to fix said problem. Don't kill the messenger for the message. I agree with everyone else that if it needs to be done to one, it should be done automatically to all. But this is not a safety issue (as of yet) so Ford doesn't have to eat the cost of doing it. My ST has the "whine" in the alternator when it's cold out (there's a TSB on how to fix it), but since I don't have any problems with charging, Ford just looks at it as an annoyance, so it will come out of my pocket if I want to have them replace it.

 

[gary s]

lil red, thanks for the info, much appreciated. i am going to sched an appointment for mine.

did you get a copy of the brochure i mailed you? if so let me know your intentions as i might follow. thanks

 

[Gavin Allan]

Hey, got my Trac back from the dealer.



TSB: It idles as smooth as can be, and I notice better throttle response and much more deliberate shifts--firm, but not harsh. Doesn't seem to "hunt" for the right gear anymore under light accelleration at low speeds.



Wheel Balance, rotation, and Alignment: WOW! What a difference!!! This thing drives like it is on rails now! Tracks straight and true, with a very solid "on-center" feel. Absolutely NO vibration felt up to 85 MPH. Feels like it is going much slower than it actually is. I thought the Trac had a great road feel, but now it is AWESOME! Only downside is dealer would not warranty balance and alignment--it cost me $115, but should be well worth it.



THANKS AGAIN Lil RED!