hot computer

[Ed Fenwick]

Aloha folks, my computer (Dell T1500) Gets hot. Sometimes stops running. CPU gets into the 200s the motherboard high 190s. I have changed the dielectric grease on the CPU not much change. everything is clean, what else can I do about it? The computer is old ( bought used 10 years ago) but can't afford to replace it. I edit photos with it so can't get a cheap one. Any ideas? Could the CPU be bad but not yet dead?
Thanks in advance Ed

 

[blert]

Should not be dielectric grease between the cpu and heat sink. It should be a proper thermal paste. Any will do, you don't need the expensive stuff. It should be a very thin layer. Apply it with a credit card, even and very thin, you are looking to fill in imperfections not creating an actual paste layer.

If it has a heat sink on the motherboard you can also reseat it but it may be more difficult as it is probably stuck down with a thermal pad.

Are all the fans working and clean of dust?

The single most important thing is air flow through the case. Route all wires cleanly and as out of the way of the path the air takes as possible. If you have multiple case fans... top and rear should be oriented as exhaust, front and bottom should be oriented as intake. IMO, more intake is the way to go though some would argue that more exhaust is better.

Check your idle cpu usage. If it is high then you have things running in the background that you need to look into.

 

[blert]

Also, check the orientation of the fan on the cpu. It should be blowing onto the heat sink unless you have a specialized heat sink designed to work in the other direction.

Check your video card cooling too, if it is close to the cpu, that can effect cooling of both. If possible move it to another slot farther away from the cpu.

A cramped case is an inefficient case.

Is it over-clocked? If so, set back to default.

Check you power settings in Windows. Some power settings adjust fan speeds.

Reset BIOS to default. Some systems have power settings and fan control in BIOS. Maybe something got tweaked and it is adversely effecting the machine. While you are at it check for a BIOS update.

 

[Ed Fenwick]

blert, thanks, sorry, it is a heat sink paste nor dielectric. The heatsink and the CPU will only plug in one way on this. Idle CPU temp is 129. I removed the side cover and put a home fan blowing into the computer. No change in temperature. I don't know about overclocking but I reset the computer back to when it was running well, no change.
I don't know how to mess with the BIOS.
Today I ran Recuva, the CPU started at 129f and went to 140f. The mainboard started at 132and went up to 194 in about a minute or so. then went down to 141. Recuva stopped running and there was a message that the performance monitor had stopped working. I tried to close everything but it was frozen. I had to pull the plug! Now with nothing running but the Sporttrack site, the fans are running faster!
Is there maybe a problem with the performance monitor? Should I replace that and how to do it?
Thanks God bless Ed

 

[blert]

Performance Monitor is a software solution not a bit of hardware that can be replaced.

Honestly, it's very hard to diagnose issues like this long distance. So many things can be a contributing factor.

I'm wondering if maybe you are having memory issues. You may try popping the memory out and re-seating them.

It could also be a power supply issue. If the power supply is overheating that can cause any number of wonky crap to happen.

If you leave the case cover off with a big fan blowing on it does it still crash?

Can you supply me with the specs of your machine? I looked it up but there are a lot of options for that model. I would like to look up the temperature specs of you components.

Since you are seeing the motherboard temps jump I would try pulling the heat sink off of the southbridge, clean off any goop and re-seat the heat sink.

Would love to fly over to Hawaii to help you out but the kids and wife would want to come with me.

Edit:
Safe boot your system and check temps. Copy a few big files and check temps.

Are you running virus protection?

Can you boot to a USB drive?

Are you familiar with Linux?

What version of Windows are you using?

 

[Ed Fenwick]

Aloha blert, Yes I understand that it is hard to diagnose what you can't touch. I appreciate you trying. I have reseated the memory twice. How can I test the power supply? Case off big fan and still crash. Where can I find the specs.
I see a heatsink on the motherboard but don't see any way to remove it. What is a southbridge? I just deleted a few things that I didn't recognize. Maybe will help!
thanks for your help.

 

[blert]

If it is still crashing when you have the case open and a big fan on it then I would have to say the problem is not heat related. This leaves a hardware issue or something FUBAR in Windows.

Specs... cpu, video card, memory, etc

The heat sink on the motherboard is what I was speaking of. Since you can't see a way to remove it then it is stuck on with a sticky thermal pad. If it is on tight don't pull it off unless you have a piece of thermal tape on hand.
From pics on the net it looks like it is held on with pushpins. You would have to remove the motherboard from the case to pop them out unless you can see them through holes in the mount deck.

How many memory sticks do you have? If two... they should be installed one in the first blue socket and one in the first black socket.
Remove one and try to get the machine to crash. Then... pop that one out and slap the other one in and try to get it to crash. If one doesn't crash but the other does then you have you culprit.
If it doesn't boot with only one ram module in then you are stuck unless you have a buddy that has a rig capable of running in single channel mode.
If you have four ram modules... you will want to try each one all by itself until you find the one that is causing the crash.
If it won't boot in single channel you will have to test two modules at a time until you find the baddie. It's a lot of work.

The only way to tell if your power supply is causing the issue is to either have some way to test the output and temperatures under load or swap in a known good power supply.
If you have multiple hard drives try disconnecting all but the boot drive to lower power draw and see if it still crashes.
A good way to take the hard drives out of the equation is to disconnect all of them and boot to a USB drive or cd-ROM.
I suggest getting the hard drives disconnected before you start testing RAM just to make sure that nothing gets corrupted.

Before starting with swapping around hardware bits... first go into BIOS... turn machine on and spam F2 until it boots into a place you may not have been before (it will probably be very basic looking and very blue). If F2 doesn't work try the DEL button, it should actually tell you during POST what button to hit to enter BIOS. Look for an option to reload defaults. Do that, save and reboot. I do not suggest messing with any other settings in there unless you know what you are doing.

 

[Ed Fenwick]

Thanks blert, this I can do. I will try after the volleyball game tonight.

 

[blert]

If you find you need new memory modules... I have 2 you can have. They are brand new, never been opened, ddr3-1333 (will work in your rig). If I had more I would get them to you, sorry (your rig can do 4x4gb). No clue what shipping would be though.
You can get 4x4gb kits at Newegg for ~$55 though, probably similar on Amazon.

 

[Ed Fenwick]

Aloha blert, I just finished the memory stick dance. Module 1, no start. modules 1&2 or 1&3 or 1&4 CPU cool 140f but would not shut down with 1&3!
Module 2, no start. modules 2&3 or 2&4 CPU cool mainboard 192-194 @ idle.
back to 1&2&3&4 CPU 188 mainboard 194, then mainboard drop back to 190 and then drop to 120 then back up then drop.
I reset all memory now CPU and board are cool 140f-130f.
The mainboard is always slightly warm to the touch. The hard drive is hot though.
I ran Recuva to test and it was slow but worked but would not close, I had to go to task manager to get out. From the memory dance, I think that the modules are ok but thanks though. Crucial tells me that I can have 4X2 gb that was some years ago. Do you think that removing "Advanced Systems Care" and reinstalling will help. Performance monitor seems to be part of ASC?
I may try that soon unless you think otherwise. Good talking with you blert may God keep you in His heart.

 

[blert]

Everything I have read about your rig and the H57 chipset specifies 16gb max with 4x4gb DDR3 at 1333. You can go faster than 1333 but it won't do you any good unless you overclock.

If you are confident in your current RAM modules then the only other place to look would be your hard drives. You say the hard drive gets hot? It really shouldn't get very hot, even under major usage. It may be failing. You can run a test on it (Google "windows disk test") but if you do you may end up losing data if the test starts marking sectors as bad. Back up important stuff before running any hard drive test.

I would suggest making a USB bootable drive. There are some good recovery and testing images out there you could use. You can go back into BIOS and change the boot order to boot to USB first. See if it stays stable.

The major components that are of concern...
- motherboard and cpu, it is running so I don't think those are the issue.
- ram, seemed to test fine.
- power supply, would need a known good one to borrow for a swap.
- hard drives, even new ones can crap out in a day or last for decades.

Since you say the drive is getting hot and your Recuva (a disk util) was running slow, it leads me think that maybe the drive is spending a lot of time recovering from errors. This would heat up your motherboard and drive.

I don't think trying to reinstall ASC would do much good. It's not that the PerformanceMonitor is failing. Something is causing it to crash.

How old is the hard drive?

 

[blert]

https://www.ultimatebootcd.com/
This contains many tools that you can use to stress and test various components. Burn it to a USB drive, or CDROM and boot to it.

 

[Ed Fenwick]

Sorry blert, this didn't go through. the drive was in the computer when I bought it used about 10 years ago.

 

[blert]

I'm thinking your hard drive is getting ready to take a major dump on you. Burn UltimateBootCD (linked above) to a USB drive, boot to it and run a disk test. Would bet it will start throwing a ton of errors at you. Best to check first though. Hope you have backups of important data.
While you are at it you can also run CPU test, ram test, and video memory test.

Edit: Wait... are you saying that you ran a disk test already and it passed?

 

[Ed Fenwick]

Aloha blert, I did not say that but it has since passed. I bought a used drive yesterday, it has windows 10. I have heard bad things about 10 but I am still trying to figure it out. Youtube tells me that the heat sink on the motherboard cannot be removed without first removing the motherboard and pinching the tabs on the gismo holding it in.
I will start loading Recuva and ASC to see if the new drive gets hot also. Oh the saga of old computers. Just like old Sportracks.
God bless Ed

 

[blert]

Hmmm, you might run into problems...
Windows10 is technically free if you upgrade from an older version (7 or better I think). If not then it is not free. Once installed, and you log in, it gets tied to the machine and your Microsoft account. If it was already installed and used on another machine it may not do you much good as its verification code is tied to other hardware and another account. Are there ways around that?, sure, but I won't help with that, sorry.
If you don't play many games and just want your machine to always run good then I suggest you grab a Linux distro and spend a few days getting to know it. Depending on the distro, it's not a beast to install and use anymore. There is so much software available that I am sure you can find replacements for whatever programs you use and there may even be Linux versions available of the software you currently use.

I still suggest you download UltimateBootCD and burn it to a CD or USB drive. Then you can scan your 'new' drive to make sure it's not on its last leg and you will have it ready for any future issues.

 

[Ed Fenwick]

Thanks, blert, I have Linux on the laptop. I can't figure it out! UBC downloaded with no content.
Do you think that Microsoft would mind if I removed windows 10 and installed the 7 that now is on this drive onto the new drive? If this drive is bad, I will pitch it anyway.
God bless Ed

 

[blert]

If you had Windows7 working on your machine before the drive went bad you won't have any issues installing it on the same machine with a new drive. You shouldn't even have to email them to reactivate, not enough of a hardware change. Then you can upgrade to 10 for free if you want to.

What Linux distro is on the laptop? Maybe I can point you to a distro that is more friendly.

UBCD is an ISO image. You need to burn it to a disk before you can use it.

 

[Ed Fenwick]

thanks, blert, I will try Linux on the laptop after I get this desktop working. I formatted the new drive, but when I go to install Windows 7, I am afraid that it will reinstall 7 on the old drive and all will be lost. The old drive is still working. Will the installation disk ask me which drive I want the installation on?

 

[blert]

Have you made backups of any important data?

I have not installed Windows7 in years but it should walk you through fairly easily.

If there is nothing on the old drive you need to keep...
Put the new drive on the cables of the old drive and plug the old drive into a secondary drive port. Run Windows setup and have it format all drives and then let it do its thing.

If you need to keep the old drive 'as is' then that gets quite tricky as Windows does not handle dual boot very well and it will probably just try to install on top of the old installation. Depending on how it was originally installed and set up, you may not even be able to access the old files even if you get it to force dual boot.

Best option... Make backups of important stuff. Put new drive on the first drive port on the motherboard and the old drive on the secondary. Run the setup and format all drives and continue the install. Setup will walk you through.