David Ponder
Well-Known Member
Funny thing is.. they were 1 minute apart each.. 
interesting fact
- Thread starter Bill Barber
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Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Dave,
That's a good hypothetical example.
I've seen that example play out in bodegas, mom-and-pop grocery stores, even franchises like 7-11 and Dunkin Donuts. Yes, often a few US citizens get let go, and yes some foreign nationals immigrate and work those jobs; and yes, some money often goes back home.
My question: "SO WHAT?"
Is this not the land of the opportunity?
Don't we give everyone the same opportunity, in this example, to buy that business, run it and hire whomever they want and do whatever they want with the profits?
Would you really want it any other way?
TJR
That's a good hypothetical example.
I've seen that example play out in bodegas, mom-and-pop grocery stores, even franchises like 7-11 and Dunkin Donuts. Yes, often a few US citizens get let go, and yes some foreign nationals immigrate and work those jobs; and yes, some money often goes back home.
My question: "SO WHAT?"
Is this not the land of the opportunity?
Don't we give everyone the same opportunity, in this example, to buy that business, run it and hire whomever they want and do whatever they want with the profits?
Would you really want it any other way?
TJR
Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Don't know what happened with the triple post. I clicked once. Maybe it was an echo...
And, our Federal Government keep selling us down the crapper.
Nelson, Echo, echo, echo:lol:
Nelson, Echo, echo, echo
:lol:Walang Silbi
Member
Interesting reading ideas in this thread.
The way I see it, the world has finite wealth. Lets say there are only one hundred people on earth and there are no countries, just one big land mass. Each person has 100 wealth units in change in his pocket. They each produce things and exchange goods and services. at the end of say, ten years, do you think each person will have the same one hundred wealth units?
In a macro way, I think this is happening globally. Once poor countries are now richer and rich countries, well... not rich anymore
The way I see it, the world has finite wealth. Lets say there are only one hundred people on earth and there are no countries, just one big land mass. Each person has 100 wealth units in change in his pocket. They each produce things and exchange goods and services. at the end of say, ten years, do you think each person will have the same one hundred wealth units?
In a macro way, I think this is happening globally. Once poor countries are now richer and rich countries, well... not rich anymore
user 62394
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I'm with TJR -- see, we can agree on something. If someone else is (legally)doing well and can own businesses, good for them, even if they are from another country. It is no skin off my nose.
As far as profits going back to some other country, I have said many times when we have had discussions about foreign automakers, I don't care where the profits go. Profits are 10 cents of every dollar sold if the company is lucky. It is jobs I care about. Jobs are what keeps our economy moving, because people who work here pay taxes here, spend money here.
As far as US citizens losing their jobs to people coming in from other countries, yes, it does happen. The company I work for has a decent percentage - at least 10% - of white collar workers from other countries -- Switzerland, Japan, India, China, eastern Europe. But they all spend plenty of money here because they live here. That creates jobs elsewhere. And they pay taxes. Yeah, it sucks for the guy who may have lost his job, but frankly, those are the breaks. He will have some decisions to make, but there is still plenty of opportunity around.
Rocks
As far as profits going back to some other country, I have said many times when we have had discussions about foreign automakers, I don't care where the profits go. Profits are 10 cents of every dollar sold if the company is lucky. It is jobs I care about. Jobs are what keeps our economy moving, because people who work here pay taxes here, spend money here.
As far as US citizens losing their jobs to people coming in from other countries, yes, it does happen. The company I work for has a decent percentage - at least 10% - of white collar workers from other countries -- Switzerland, Japan, India, China, eastern Europe. But they all spend plenty of money here because they live here. That creates jobs elsewhere. And they pay taxes. Yeah, it sucks for the guy who may have lost his job, but frankly, those are the breaks. He will have some decisions to make, but there is still plenty of opportunity around.
Rocks
Here is something that could happen.
Lets say China buys out all the steel mills to help build thier economy. India buys out the largest oil companies to secure oil for thier use. Millions of more Americans are hired and the American people are happy.
At the same time, South Korean businesses, with hidden ties with North Korea (Hyundai was busted for sending money to Kim Jong Ill a few years back) buys up some large factories.
China becomes more powerful. China decides to shut down the steel mills. They bring armed guards to protect thier property (something they should be allowed to do) against outside threats.
The USA has had it steel mills shut down and needs steel. The USA decides to take economic sanctions against China. India, in fear of losing oil shipping channels, shuts down the largest refineries in the USA and sends that oil to India to get refined.
Already, as a nation, our oil and steel production has come to a halt. North Korea sees this and calls thier friends in South Korea to step up to the plate. Together, China and North Korea, use thier power to crush the economy of the USA rendering the money useless.
Once our money is rendered useless, we are done for.
Nobody plans to get into an accident. We see every possibly senerio that could put us into an accident. We do everything we can to stay out of any situations that could cause an accident. If the accident does happen, we have insurance.
There is not insurance for the above scenerio. With that being said, taking a proactive stance is the only logical thing to do, since nobody is there to have our back.
Tom
Lets say China buys out all the steel mills to help build thier economy. India buys out the largest oil companies to secure oil for thier use. Millions of more Americans are hired and the American people are happy.
At the same time, South Korean businesses, with hidden ties with North Korea (Hyundai was busted for sending money to Kim Jong Ill a few years back) buys up some large factories.
China becomes more powerful. China decides to shut down the steel mills. They bring armed guards to protect thier property (something they should be allowed to do) against outside threats.
The USA has had it steel mills shut down and needs steel. The USA decides to take economic sanctions against China. India, in fear of losing oil shipping channels, shuts down the largest refineries in the USA and sends that oil to India to get refined.
Already, as a nation, our oil and steel production has come to a halt. North Korea sees this and calls thier friends in South Korea to step up to the plate. Together, China and North Korea, use thier power to crush the economy of the USA rendering the money useless.
Once our money is rendered useless, we are done for.
Nobody plans to get into an accident. We see every possibly senerio that could put us into an accident. We do everything we can to stay out of any situations that could cause an accident. If the accident does happen, we have insurance.
There is not insurance for the above scenerio. With that being said, taking a proactive stance is the only logical thing to do, since nobody is there to have our back.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Walang said:
That, as I have said countless times before, is the root of many perceived problem in this world.
What you describe is the "scarcity principle". In this principle, the notion is that there is only so much wealth, good fortune, and good luck in the world. That implies that if someone else starts to do BETTER that means that someone else (maybe me) has to start doing WORSE.
Wealth is not a scarce commodity. It is an abundant commodity that can be grown, literally from seemingly NOTHING. It fuels itself. Our countries ag boom, the industrial revolution; the rise of the oil barrons, our manufacturing hay-day, the tech boom (no, not the dot-com bust)... all these things invented industries, created wealth, and fed themselves and spawned sub-industries.
TJR
That, as I have said countless times before, is the root of many perceived problem in this world.
What you describe is the "scarcity principle". In this principle, the notion is that there is only so much wealth, good fortune, and good luck in the world. That implies that if someone else starts to do BETTER that means that someone else (maybe me) has to start doing WORSE.
Wealth is not a scarce commodity. It is an abundant commodity that can be grown, literally from seemingly NOTHING. It fuels itself. Our countries ag boom, the industrial revolution; the rise of the oil barrons, our manufacturing hay-day, the tech boom (no, not the dot-com bust)... all these things invented industries, created wealth, and fed themselves and spawned sub-industries.
TJR
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Caymen,
That is a good, and likely doomsday scenario. But like many doomsday scenarios it has a common element, and that is that the once, all mighty and powerful, becomes complacement and displaced by the "up and comer", those that were once no threat, but through hard work and determinism became a great power, a threat and then a dominator.
If that happens, and it could, then to a certain extent it is the natural order of things. Survival of the fittest.
Does that mean I have given up? Nope. I'm just not in a panic yet. In the next 100 years I think it is more likely that machines take over the world, Terminator style, than China does.
TJR
That is a good, and likely doomsday scenario. But like many doomsday scenarios it has a common element, and that is that the once, all mighty and powerful, becomes complacement and displaced by the "up and comer", those that were once no threat, but through hard work and determinism became a great power, a threat and then a dominator.
If that happens, and it could, then to a certain extent it is the natural order of things. Survival of the fittest.
Does that mean I have given up? Nope. I'm just not in a panic yet. In the next 100 years I think it is more likely that machines take over the world, Terminator style, than China does.
TJR
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I think we might be overstating the fact when people say that "Forign countries are buying up American businesses"????
What is happening is that foriegn owned businesses are buyng American owned businesses. Some may see this as some evil plot, but it's just business.
I would like to see the US pas some laws the limit who can buy our busincess. Especially companies that are from contries that do not allow foriegners to own property or businesses in their countries...and there are some contries that do that.
Remember for many years Ford and GM have had a very big operations in a number of European and other global contries and still do.
I would think that some business in the US might be much more sensetive and perhaps they would not be available for ownership by foriegn businesses, but that also might depend on what country that business calls home. In thos instances, they can invest in American companies, but the controling interest (51%) must be owned by an American business.
...Rich
What is happening is that foriegn owned businesses are buyng American owned businesses. Some may see this as some evil plot, but it's just business.
I would like to see the US pas some laws the limit who can buy our busincess. Especially companies that are from contries that do not allow foriegners to own property or businesses in their countries...and there are some contries that do that.
Remember for many years Ford and GM have had a very big operations in a number of European and other global contries and still do.
I would think that some business in the US might be much more sensetive and perhaps they would not be available for ownership by foriegn businesses, but that also might depend on what country that business calls home. In thos instances, they can invest in American companies, but the controling interest (51%) must be owned by an American business.
...Rich
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
I just wish the US could learn from the Europeans and we could quit working so many long hours. Six weeks of vacation every summer would be pretty darn nice about now...
