Legal Question

[Gerald Pierce]

A question for you folks.... My son sold a POS car before we left Jacksonville at the end of May to someone. Signed the title, got cash, they took the vehicle. Today, we get a certified letter saying he is on the hook for a couple of hundred in towing and storage fees. I call to find out whats up, they say the police called them to get the vehicle, it had been abandoned and he owes for the tow and storage. The paperwork they mailed says there is a lien on the vehicle now. If he mails them the title, the key, and 100.00, they will junk the car.



Evidently, the folks he sold to never registered the vehicle, so it falls back on him. A dupe title is 38.00, plus we have to prove he owns the vehicle, which he doesn't.



If he doesn't pay, what could happen to him? I have no idea who these people were. Would it just be a lien on the title of the car? Or could they get a formal judgement against him for the money?

 

[Matt Dammes]

I had the same thing happen along time ago. Sold the car, two weeks later it was found on the side of the road and the police showed up at my door. I had a document I had printed that was signed by the person who I sold the car too. It was an "as is" contract I had found when researching how to sell a car and luckly I had them sign it. If you don't have any proof that you sold the car, especially written than I don't know what you can do, maybe there is a lawyer on this site that can give you some helpful info.



Matt

 

[EddieS'04]

In the state of Texas, whatever salvage yard, or storage lot is holding it files for title abondment after 90 days. Any lien is a dead issue. The only way the state may try to hold resposibility is, if the vehicle was involved in property or personal damage. They might try to blame the last registered owner. That is in Texas.



I wouldnt think anything to worry about if it was picked up abandoned....JMO...



EDIT: If you feel generous send them the key. DONT send them any money...

 

[Bob McDonald]

If you even feel like corresponding with them, I would tell them to pound sand. You sold the car, You don't have keys any longer and you sure as hell aren't sending them any hundred dollars. Since you don't own the car, you couldn't care less what they do with it.



I don't know how Florida handles it, but in CA, a portion of the pink slip includes a tear-off portion that you fill out and send to the DMV yourself advising that you have sold the car. They way, you don't care if the new owner doesn't get around to registering it.

 

[Ron Duckworth]

Cruzrtwdgt :



Out of the things you metioned your son got for selling, you didn't list a Bill of Sale.



Did your son sign a bill of sale along with the buyers? I am a Loan Officer in Alabama, and if a person has a signed Bill of Sale between both parties, the seller no longer has any vested interest in the vehicle. The solution to the problem may be as simple as showing the authorities the Bill of Sale which proves that your son was no longer the legal owner.



Another good thing I recommend my members at the credit union to get is a copy of the back of the title where the Buyer and Seller have signed.



If your son has a bill of sale, there should be no problem.



I'll be glad to answer/help with anything else if needed.



Ron

 

[Ron Duckworth]

Cruzrtwdgt :



Out of the things you metioned your son got for selling, you didn't list a Bill of Sale.



Did your son sign a bill of sale along with the buyers? I am a Loan Officer in Alabama, and if a person has a signed Bill of Sale between both parties, the seller no longer has any vested interest in the vehicle. The solution to the problem may be as simple as showing the authorities the Bill of Sale which proves that your son was no longer the legal owner.



Another good thing I recommend my members at the credit union to get is a copy of the back of the title where the Buyer and Seller have signed.



If your son has a bill of sale, there should be no problem.



I'll be glad to answer/help with anything else if needed.



Ron

 

[Kevin Palmer]

If you can prove you did not own it prior to the incident your good to go.



A bill of sale would be a great bonus. The signed title would do it to. But I have to assume the seller has that.



Did he have insurance? If so, did he cancel it? You can get a statement from your insurance man as to when he dropped the insurance. It may be enough to sway the police.

 

[Richard L]

I don't think your son needs to do anything except to inform the police department that the vehicle was sold and appearantly never re-registered. If he knows the name and address of the new owner, he should pass that on to the police as well. Other than that, he has no responibility.



I live in Texas and I traded an old 1978 Buick Regal to a local dealer for another used car. About 6 months later I received a letter from the Police in Houston, TX saying that I had not paid some parking tickets. When I called them, they said I had to have proof that I had sold the vehicle, so I went back to the dealer. The sent the Houston, Police a letter showing that I had tradied in the old Buick and that they had sold it to an Auto Wholesaler.



About a year later I got another letter from the Houston Police still saying I owed for the tickets, so I went back to the dealer. The dealer sent another letter to the police through their attorney and insisted that they remove my name from these tickets or he would contact the State Attorney General's office. I never heard from the Houston Police again, and that was over 15 years ago.



If you make a private sale of a vehicle in a state that transfers the license plates to the new owner, I would recommend the following.



1. Write up a bill of sale that includes both parties full name and address and both should appear before a Notary Public to verify ID and signatures. The state of Texas has a Bill of Sale form that can be used to record all the sale information, but if your state does not have this form, just make up your own.



2. Sign the title and date it, and fill out al the information required by the seller, and get a photocopy.



3. Loose the license plates and registration papers. That forces the new owner to change the registration to get new plates and insurance to legally drive the vehicle.



...Rich

 

[Rich Wavrik]

The towing yard has to notify the last known owner. If after so many days the vehicle is not paid our of towing storage they can file a lien against it. Eventually after so many days they can legally take possession of the vehicle and title it in their name. They end up owning the vehicle.



By sending the keys, title, paperwork ... you are really making the towing yards life a little easier. They don't have to file all the correct paperwork to take possession of the vehicle. With the keys, they don't have to pay a locksmith to rekey and make new keys (if the intend to sell the vehicle).



I would not worry about it. Let them have the POS.

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Bottom line, having a bill of sale has the potential of eliminating some huge hassles. You lose the title when you sell it. If they do not do the right thing and re-title it then it is still your vehicle in th eyes of the state. That is where the bill of sale can save your but.



My family has owned a salvage yard for 20 plus years. We get in the middle of this type of stuff all the time. All the paper work goes back to the last titled owner. It is his/her responsibility until they can prove the had sold the vehicle.



It can be a hassle, but it is what it is. The bill of sale is worth it's weight in gold when you need it...

 

[Gerald Pierce]

Figured as much about proving we sold it. Trying to find the bill of sale, not sure if we have it still after all the stuff we went through when we moved.



I suppose we are going to have to do the dupe title thing if he cant get the original back and pay them the 100.00. Going to be a pain in the butt for sure. He left his insurance running on that vehicle as he was going to buy a replacement as soon as he got to VA, however, that didn't happen untill a couple of weeks ago.



It was sold to a friend of a friend, so there is a possibility we may be able to get the title back, but who knows.



As far as keys.... they are going to have to junk it anyway, tranny is shot, back seat is missing, dash is in shambles, and its a DODGE NEON.



I'm still curious if the lien just goes on the title or if it will go on his credit report as a judgement. He has worked real hard paying off a vehicle that was totaled and he was upside down on to keep his credit good, he only has about 4 more payments to go. Hard lesson paying on a car for a year that you aren't even driving..... even worse when you can only afford POS's untill the loan is paid for.

 

[steve twyver]

In Kalifornia you have to mail in the bottom portion of the title to DMV within a certain time frame to no longer be held liable. The actual the form is not as important as including all the details of the buyer and vehicle ID numbers, including his driver's license of the buyer. Then mailing it into DMV prior to their short deadline (I believe one week). To avoid any liability, you must prove to DMV that you actually made a transfer in ownership. Otherwise hit and run could pay off using the excuse that you sold the vehicle.

 

[Jason McKinnon]

In my state (Georgia), the impound company can claim the vehicle as abandoned after a certain number of days and specific attempts to get in touch with the last known owner. However, when they do this, they have to sell the vehicle at public auction, and any funds beyond their tow/storage fees and the fees in notifying the owner are turned in to the state's DOT fund, so the tow yard doesn't get anything other than the normal fees they would have gotten anyway. I imagine your state's laws may be similar, so if the tow yard can get you to send them $100 and turn the title over to them, they don't have to file it as abandoned and can do what they want with it and keep any proceeds. I think they're trying to scam you. Like everyone else said, send them a letter stating that you sold the vehicle (include the name and any other info you have on the buyer), and that you have no ownership interest in it. I'd send the letter registered mail, and keep a copy for yourself.

 

[Gerald Pierce]

Thanks All. I am thinking of going the route of JayMck, send them a letter that says they aren't getting any money (from my son of course) and to do what they want with the vehicle. When I talked to them, they said something about him not being able to renew his Drivers License if he didn't take care of it, but that is simple enough -- I'll have him go change to a VA license since we now live here.