More Troops to deploy??????

[Ed C]

It's not about the President, or money or a declaration of victory. It's about our service men and women getting the help they need to take the fight to the terrorists. I gladly went to the middle east so maybe someday my kid wont have to. I would rather fight them there than here in my backyard.



To think that we can't win is an insult to our Military.



9/11, Never Forget.

 

[Johnny O]

We have essentially elected an Illinois state senator to the highest office in the land. He just had the good fortune for 1) Sen. Jack Ryan to not keep his pants up and 2) to run for President in a year when Jesus H. Christ himself wouldn't have won as a Republican.

 

[Bill Barber]

we will never win, because we are not there to win.

 

[Jeremy Gilmore 2]

You guys want a victory in Afghan? Tell you what, tell the Pres. and all the liberals to shut the hell up, give my weapon, and don't give me any stupid rules to go by. Just let me go and do my job, kill the enemy.



That's all we really need for victory. We can win the war.

 

[Bill Barber]

But Happy, if we used deadly force to actually win the first war since 1946, we would be looked upon badly by the rest of the world, america has a reputation to maintain.

Could be 10K afganis, killed (Non- combatants) Is far better that 10K GIs die, thats what they were hired to do.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Are you trying to make war a hell?

 

[Kody Prothro]

I deploy to Afghan in January.........please pray for my family and that the lord will watch over them while I'm gone......thanks!

 

[Bill Barber]

gavin. it will be hell, but unless this country actually makes a declaration of war. we cannot win this Non-war, Good luck kody, be safe.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I pray for those fighting in Afghanistan, I applaud those who have served in the Middle East.



I *HATE* my government because we are fighting there at all.



I have very little patience for those that use tired lines like "fighting them in their own backyard", and "remember 9-11". I'm to start a sh!t-storm for saying that, but consider this: the last time I checked, all the hijackers were Saudis. So why a war in Afghanistan?



We are fighting the wrong people in the wrong country. But it wouldn't be too prudent to declare war against the richest oil nation in the area, now would it?



The simple fact of the matter is that many people from many countries in that area hate us because they have nothing and we seem to have everything. They hate us because we buy precious resources from their leaders who in turn get rich and give them nothing. This happens all while we indirectly and directly influence their governments and their government's policies.



If we don't understand and accept these simple reasons for the hatred, then we will never be able to fight it. I'm not saying it's our fault. Fault only has place in a "blame game." I'm not placing blame...I'm just explaining WHY they hate us.



Yes, there will be those that say that they "hate us because of our freedoms", or they "hate us because we are Americans", or my favorite, "they hate us because of our religion." Those are all really good reasons to FIGHT them. But the reality (to me) is that they hate us because the "are not us", and because "we are not them", but we are influencing their place in the world.



Let the chest beating begin...



TJR

 

[Les]

To think that we can't win is an insult to our Military.

As you can see, the military doesn't make the decisions. The best armed and most well trained military cannot win, if they are not allowed to do their job. The insult is the people making the decisions to send our troops into harms way, do it without the properly supporting them. The tradegy is to the mother and fathers of the soldiers that won't come home because of half-ass decisions made in Washington.

 

[Johnny O]

Well said TJR.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Great post, TJR.



You did a good job pulling it together and putting it into words.



This needs to be repeated.

 

[P M]

Yes, well said. I think our original efforts there were valid. That is where the bad guys were. I do not think our strategy has evolved properly though. I'm certainly not privy to discussions regarding the actual locations of Al Qaeda now, but it seems like Pakistan, Yemen and the Horn of Africa are more likely locations. And yes, Saudi Arabia. I just really don't see how our leadership (white house through DoD) plans to create a nation in a place where people are more aligned by tribes and groups than they are to the idea of a nation. And I really don't understand the plan of sending more now just to bring them back in 18 mos. I feel like there must be more to the story... Probably not.



There are people that are going to hate us regardless of what we do. To expect otherwise is naive. It's up to us to ensure our security. We need to have a strategy to deal with these relatively small groups wherever they are to ensure they are not able to conduct major evolutions in the US. Don't see how a 100k troops in Afghanistan is accomplishing that much towards that end.

 

[Kevin Lang]

I just really don't see how our leadership (white house through DoD) plans to create a nation in a place where people are more aligned by tribes and groups than they are to the idea of a nation.

That's a great point, as was TJRs.



Why do we have to set them up with a nation that is patterned after our own? They want to be tribal, so why are we trying to force their hand? Making nations in the middle east started a large part of this mess, way to go Britain and France.



Unless we're going to overlord their country, their democracy as set out by us will fall, and this will be pointless.



and BHO says that he won't control another nation, so that's out.

(Ah imperialism, how we didn't have all these stupid issues when you were the big name. Countries should have had to fight to get out of imperialism, not be handed freedom, as comparing the United States to the middle east or an african country like congo shows)

 

[Ed C]

First off, Kody you stay safe brother. You have people that support you, believe in you and what you're doing there. If there's anything I can do for you don't hesitate to shoot me an email.

So why a war in Afghanistan?

Obviously you are an intelligence officer. That's where Al-Qaeda is based. But rest assured they are all over, should we declare war on the whole world? Yes! Lets nuke everybody, even women and children, because we are better than terrorists.

I *HATE* my government because we are fighting there at all.

I'm not happy with the government either, it took way too long to make a decision. But I think it was the right one. Far from perfect but right. I wonder if we would have this debate if it was Bush sending troops to Afghanistan, or even Iraq. BTW I did NOT vote for Obama.

Unless we're going to overlord their country, their democracy as set out by us will fall, and this will be pointless.

Yes, lets give up and all come home. We will just wait for the next attack, clean up all the dead bodies, then wait for the next one. As TJR pointed out, they hate the USA for no good reason. Even if we pack up and leave that POS country they wont stop hating us. They will come for us and never stop. So yes, lets just wait here.



I didn't like being deployed, no one does. I did it so all of you could sit at home typing on your computers (complaining about everything) without getting blown up by some terrorist bastard. After hearing all this defeatist talk (which good service member like Kody don't need to hear) It makes me want to say... You want victory? stop typing and start fighting.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

SFCEd said:

Even if we pack up and leave that POS country they wont stop hating us. They will come for us and never stop. So yes, lets just wait here.

Obviously that was sarcasm in that last statement. If we left tomorrow, or 10 years from tomorrow, I submit we still won't have the job done, and we still won't be any safer from those that are so desperate that they LOSE NOTHING and GAIN EVERYTHING by attacking us.



I'm not a defeatist. I'm a realist. I would rather we pick the fights worth fighting. To me, Afghanistan is still largely a "feel good" war. At first it made us feel good, like we were making the world safer and extracting a pound of flesh. Once in their (and Iraq) we broke things beyond quick repair and now we have to stay their to clean up all the pieces. We also attracted hostiles in the process. But we will never know if they were new hostiles, attacking us because we were there, or if they were hostiles before we ever went in.



I'm sure we've done great work in the Middle East, and I'm sure there are those that are benefiting from our liberation of them, and the removal of the hostiles. I know we'eve killed 100s of thousands. But I don't think we are any saver today then we were on 09/10/2001. Of course, there are those that will say that we haven't been attacked since then, as if that is proof that we are safer. But a wise man is best to not consider the absence of something the proof of anything.



TJR

 

[Ed C]

If we left tomorrow, or 10 years from tomorrow, I submit we still won't have the job done,

Agree, that's why I rather fight there (on our terms) than wait for them to attack here and kill a bunch of women and children again.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

SFCEd,



If you agree, then how exactly will staying there and killing more of them ever going to make us any saver if we never really get the job done?



We've killed 100s of thousands...we can stay for 10, 20, or 30 more years and kill 100s of thousand more, and in the process "create" 100s of thousands more hostiles.



Yet, they have already shown that 10 or 12 of them that are willing to sacrifice themselves, and willing to "blend in" and plan an attack over several years can kill thousands of our people. OBL was smart, but not a genious. It doesn't take a very bright person to figure out how to kill hundreds if not thousands of innocent Americans IF they are willing to invest the time, and willing to sacrifice themselves.



They way I see it is if it only takes a very few of them to hit us hard then we will never WIN and make ourselves SAFE by "taking the fight to them!" We simply cannot exterminate them all...and I don't want to live in a country that performs genocide.



TJR

 

[Ed C]

How will we be safer staying here and doing nothing?



I would kill as many hostile enemies as it takes to protect our country and our way of life. Call it genocide or what you want, it your right.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

SFCEd,



Wow. Not once did I ever say that we should "stay here and do nothing!"



All of the fighting we are doing in the Middle East won't make us safer against the kinds of attacks (and others like them that we can't even imagine) that we saw on 9-11.



If we want to be safer we have to first understand the reasons there are those in the Middle East that wish us harm (I described those above). Then, we can change our policies. In the process I expect it will mean that we wil detach ourselves from the Middle Eastern governments and their oil. This means we have to become less dependent on Middle Eastern oil. It also means we have to be less involved in Palestinian affairs.



Now, many would call what I am describing as "backing down from a fight". But I will submit that if our own actions are causing the fight, and if it is a fight which we cannot win (which I submit it is, because we simply will NEVER do what it takes to win given the common definition of victory - meaning, we will never use the necessary force, nuclear or what have you, to pound them into submission), then we should simply change our actions.



TJR