Ron Dacher
Active Member
Sorry the title didn't change in my last reply!
Newsweek article on Global Warming "Denial"
- Thread starter Bill V
- Start date
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Travis Munday
Well-Known Member
The polls asking if global warming is real or not skip over one very important detail, if all they ask is "Is global warming real?" An important bit of missing information is "what is causing global warming?". Because there is the real debate, not if global warming is real or not. One simply needs to look at temperature records to see that, in most places, there has been a gradual warming trend since the 1980's. Denying that type of concrete data is a bit silly. The crux of the matter is the cause.
Humans can probably never realize exactly how the Earth works, ever. Certainly modern humans do not know how it works. Sure, we can predict the weather a few days in advance, but how much of it is prediction and how much of it is looking at past records and comparing similar sets of data to get a reasonable estimate as to what will happen? Hell, we still don't know how atoms work, all the sub-atomic particles and internal forces, how could we possibly expect to understand something as vast and complex as a magnetized ball of mostly molten rock screaming around a massive hydrogen fusion reactor? We don't even understand what light IS, how it works. And light is what drives this planet. Light is at the very bottom of every food chain. Light gives us life and climate, and we don't even understand it.
Besides, I'm doing my part to fight global warming...I'm eating as many cows as I can. They produce more greenhouse gases then cars do.
Humans can probably never realize exactly how the Earth works, ever. Certainly modern humans do not know how it works. Sure, we can predict the weather a few days in advance, but how much of it is prediction and how much of it is looking at past records and comparing similar sets of data to get a reasonable estimate as to what will happen? Hell, we still don't know how atoms work, all the sub-atomic particles and internal forces, how could we possibly expect to understand something as vast and complex as a magnetized ball of mostly molten rock screaming around a massive hydrogen fusion reactor? We don't even understand what light IS, how it works. And light is what drives this planet. Light is at the very bottom of every food chain. Light gives us life and climate, and we don't even understand it.
Besides, I'm doing my part to fight global warming...I'm eating as many cows as I can. They produce more greenhouse gases then cars do.
Mike Hyde
Member
I don't often get envolved in these tyoe discussions and I never have before on this board. Heck, I haven't even posted much on this board. But having read all the posts on this topic and part of the Newsweek article, I discovered I have some strong thoughts about Bill V's question. The simple answeras I set it is no. Denial is not mostly an American phenomenon. The truth is the press, politicians, other world leaders and and anyone else looking for their 15 minutes of fame/publicity to futher their cause try to manipulate the facts to have their audiance believe we Americans are denying global warming, along with other important issues of the time. Such human rights and animal cruelty. Especially some those of countries competing with the U.S. in global markets, and of course our enemies.
However, the fact is, the U.S. has some of the most restrictive regulations regarding polution and emissions than any other country in the world. There are rules, regulations and guidlines for every product produced, grown, sevred or sold in this country. Not just automobiles and factories. Gasoline has been refomulated twice in the last ten years to make it burn cleaner with less emissions and not cause cancer. It's less efficient, but cleaner. And now we have E-85 and bio-diesel. It to is less efficient, but cleaner. Aerosole cans no longer contain fluorocarbons so we don't deplete the ozone layer. Which would be a major source of global warming. Even our electronics have to meet emissions standards on radiation.
I would have to say Americans as a whole are very concerned about global warming, polution, and the energy issues that go with it. There has been a noticable push nationwide to "go green" from recycling to more fuel efficient vehicles. In 2004 Honda and Toyota combined sold less than 20,000 units of their Hybrids world wide. Ford and GM didn't have Hybrids availble then. This year, Toyota has already sold over 34,000 units in California alone. I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth metromess in Texas. The toyota dealers here are crying because they're supply can't meet the demand. The local Saturn dealership says 1 in 5 of every Saturn View sold is the new Hybrid. Two new Ford Escape Hybrids have recently shown up in my neighborhood. Even the boating and motorcycle manufactures are having to move away from 2 stroke motors to 4 stroke motors. Why, because it's an environmental regulation promoting less polution.
Not every American believes that global warming is a problem and you won't convience them either. But I also don't believe every person in the world other than Americans believe it is. I do strongly believe that mankind has had a detremental impact on the environment. And as long as we keep "reclaiming land" world wide for housing and industrial growth without regards to the land such as clear cutting the rain forrests or figuring out a way to deal with our industrial and residental waste, we, mankind, will continue to have some type of serious environmental issues.
No mater what country you are from, or what country you live in, there will always be those individauls who will not accept facts until it becomes a fact to them. Thats just a fact of life we have to live with.
That's my story and I'm stling to it.
Mike H
p.s. Please don't count off for spelling or neatness, Thanks
However, the fact is, the U.S. has some of the most restrictive regulations regarding polution and emissions than any other country in the world. There are rules, regulations and guidlines for every product produced, grown, sevred or sold in this country. Not just automobiles and factories. Gasoline has been refomulated twice in the last ten years to make it burn cleaner with less emissions and not cause cancer. It's less efficient, but cleaner. And now we have E-85 and bio-diesel. It to is less efficient, but cleaner. Aerosole cans no longer contain fluorocarbons so we don't deplete the ozone layer. Which would be a major source of global warming. Even our electronics have to meet emissions standards on radiation.
I would have to say Americans as a whole are very concerned about global warming, polution, and the energy issues that go with it. There has been a noticable push nationwide to "go green" from recycling to more fuel efficient vehicles. In 2004 Honda and Toyota combined sold less than 20,000 units of their Hybrids world wide. Ford and GM didn't have Hybrids availble then. This year, Toyota has already sold over 34,000 units in California alone. I live in the Dallas/Fort Worth metromess in Texas. The toyota dealers here are crying because they're supply can't meet the demand. The local Saturn dealership says 1 in 5 of every Saturn View sold is the new Hybrid. Two new Ford Escape Hybrids have recently shown up in my neighborhood. Even the boating and motorcycle manufactures are having to move away from 2 stroke motors to 4 stroke motors. Why, because it's an environmental regulation promoting less polution.
Not every American believes that global warming is a problem and you won't convience them either. But I also don't believe every person in the world other than Americans believe it is. I do strongly believe that mankind has had a detremental impact on the environment. And as long as we keep "reclaiming land" world wide for housing and industrial growth without regards to the land such as clear cutting the rain forrests or figuring out a way to deal with our industrial and residental waste, we, mankind, will continue to have some type of serious environmental issues.
No mater what country you are from, or what country you live in, there will always be those individauls who will not accept facts until it becomes a fact to them. Thats just a fact of life we have to live with.
That's my story and I'm stling to it.
Mike H
p.s. Please don't count off for spelling or neatness, Thanks
Last edited by a moderator:
Robert Thomas
Well-Known Member
"Nature is seldom wrong, management of nature always"
Ryan Schaecher
Well-Known Member
Evolutionists believe the Earth has been around for 3-4 BILLION years or more. Scientists once predicted global cooling. That was 25 years ago. Man has been on the earth approximately what 10 million years in one "evolutionary" form or another. 25 years ago they were talking global cooling.
Why do I go back to Global Cooling? It was 25 years ago. 10 million, 3-4 billion, and 25... wow. we know a lot.
Forcasters use the same information to forcast out to 2020 what they can't get right for the next three days. How often do we hear about "no rain this weekend" only to be in a deluge? It happens somewhat regularly.
As far as American's being the "only" ones who disagree with G.W. (that's Global Warming, as compared to GWB), we are one of the only countries with a "free" press. The internet is wide open and is not blocked in any way as it is in China, Korea, India, etc. All that people there know is what their government tells them or what they get when they leave the country (and promptly dismiss as propaganda when they return to their safe homes).
My beef with G.W. (besides the obvious of 25 years vs. 10M or 3B and the forecaster accuracy rates) is that it's always America that is bad. China was exempt from Kyoto. India, exempt. Both of which are on the Top 5 most CO2 emitter list.
Global Warming is a political game. Somebody is making money off both sides. Al Gore and his 'offsets'.... you do know that he is majority owner of the company that he buys offsets from?
The same people who preach about walking or taking public transportation are the same ones that have multi-vehicle caravans everywhere they go. They are the ones taking private planes.
Reality does not follow illogic. Reality shows that everything in nature tends towards disorganization.
Ever wonder why 1935 is considered the benchmark for Global Warming comparisons? 1934 was hotter than 2006 was. How often do you hear that?
Temperatures on Mars and other planets has gone up as well. Guess Ford is making and selling Expeditions and Excursions on the planet. They are competing with GM to see how many Expeditions vs Suburbans are sold.
How can you possibly tell me with a straight face that my personal "carbon footprint" (don't get me started on that joke) is larger now than if I was living in 1965? 1945? Ever see pictures of urban production facilities from the 30's-50's? The sulfur and CO2 emmisions were through the roof. Global warming? Huh?
The theory of G.W. has holes big enough to drive a non-low-emission, ultra sulfur spewing, 3 miles to the gallon Mack truck though. I do my part in recycling and by using the jokes they call Micro Flourescent bulbs (or whatever). Not because 'I Care', but rather because I care about either saving or making money. Recycling pays. Micro flourescents last longer and the power bill is lower. That's it. If there is money to be made or saved, I'd consider it. If it costs me more? Forget it.
Why do I go back to Global Cooling? It was 25 years ago. 10 million, 3-4 billion, and 25... wow. we know a lot.
Forcasters use the same information to forcast out to 2020 what they can't get right for the next three days. How often do we hear about "no rain this weekend" only to be in a deluge? It happens somewhat regularly.
As far as American's being the "only" ones who disagree with G.W. (that's Global Warming, as compared to GWB), we are one of the only countries with a "free" press. The internet is wide open and is not blocked in any way as it is in China, Korea, India, etc. All that people there know is what their government tells them or what they get when they leave the country (and promptly dismiss as propaganda when they return to their safe homes).
My beef with G.W. (besides the obvious of 25 years vs. 10M or 3B and the forecaster accuracy rates) is that it's always America that is bad. China was exempt from Kyoto. India, exempt. Both of which are on the Top 5 most CO2 emitter list.
Global Warming is a political game. Somebody is making money off both sides. Al Gore and his 'offsets'.... you do know that he is majority owner of the company that he buys offsets from?
The same people who preach about walking or taking public transportation are the same ones that have multi-vehicle caravans everywhere they go. They are the ones taking private planes.
Reality does not follow illogic. Reality shows that everything in nature tends towards disorganization.
Ever wonder why 1935 is considered the benchmark for Global Warming comparisons? 1934 was hotter than 2006 was. How often do you hear that?
Temperatures on Mars and other planets has gone up as well. Guess Ford is making and selling Expeditions and Excursions on the planet. They are competing with GM to see how many Expeditions vs Suburbans are sold.
How can you possibly tell me with a straight face that my personal "carbon footprint" (don't get me started on that joke) is larger now than if I was living in 1965? 1945? Ever see pictures of urban production facilities from the 30's-50's? The sulfur and CO2 emmisions were through the roof. Global warming? Huh?
The theory of G.W. has holes big enough to drive a non-low-emission, ultra sulfur spewing, 3 miles to the gallon Mack truck though. I do my part in recycling and by using the jokes they call Micro Flourescent bulbs (or whatever). Not because 'I Care', but rather because I care about either saving or making money. Recycling pays. Micro flourescents last longer and the power bill is lower. That's it. If there is money to be made or saved, I'd consider it. If it costs me more? Forget it.
There have been some very interesting debates here.
I do think we need to dump coal power plants and start making nuclear plants. they are cleaner, cheaper to operate, and safer than coal plants are.
I am in the nuclear power industry. I know some stuff that is under works that I can not comment on as of yet, but you would be suprised on how much cheaper nuke power is to produce over coal or natural gas.
Tom
I do think we need to dump coal power plants and start making nuclear plants. they are cleaner, cheaper to operate, and safer than coal plants are.
I am in the nuclear power industry. I know some stuff that is under works that I can not comment on as of yet, but you would be suprised on how much cheaper nuke power is to produce over coal or natural gas.
Tom
That is an interesting question, but the answer is based on our cultural differences.
Having lived in Europe for 8.5 years I can attest to the fact that Europeans have more respect for authority, and a greater sense conservation than most Americans.
They have been ruled by kings who wielded absolute power over them for centruries. Many of the kings/quens that ruled to sternly were overthrown or eventually were replaced by more benevolent rulers, and eventually they turned to more democratic governments.
Europeans have similar rights as we Americans, but there are some limitations to their free speech especially when criticizing their leaders or royalty.
European countries have a very rich history that goes back thousands of years. Churches and cathedrals that were built in the 11th and 12th century are still standing and many still function as churches. They are not just ruins for archeologist to examine.
America was born from the desire to rid ourselves of religious persecution, and tyranny of the European rulers. We respect authority to a certain level, but we do not willingly accept everthing that every authority figure presents to us.
America was created from rebellion and I think that is part of our culture. That is why we have the freedom of speech, the right to bare arms, freedom of religion, or the freedom not to profess a belief in God, etc.
Does that make us right? No. Does it make us wrong? No again!
So in the end it’s part of the American culture to question the authority or theory of so called experts. We all know of the countless medical studies that continually contradict the previous medical study,, which contradicted the medical study prior to that…etc.
We have also seen where many of these worthwhile studies are being manipulated by politicians strictly for political gain.
My own personal opinion tells me that the Global warming we may be experiencing now is not man made, and cannot be solved by man. I think we do need to reduce the pollution in the air, because that poses the most immediate health risk to humans. I also appose using food products like corn to make Ethanol fuel, so long as there are starving people in the world. It has already been shown that switch-grass produces much more ethanol per acre and does not require as much water, grows in poorer soil and several crops can be harvested each year.
As for Global warming, Back in the late 1940’s there was far more pollution and CO2 in the air than there is now or ever has been and the weather was extremely cold. Scientist back then was predicting an Ice Age was coming and it was caused by the high levels of CO2 in the air. As the temperatures warmed the CO2 levels dropped as well. Now that the earch is warming, the CO2 levels may be rising, but the higher CO2 levels are not the cause of the warming, it is the results of the warming.
For every “Fact†that Al Gore and believers in CO2 causes Global Warming, point out some period in history, the opponents can counter just as factually that there were periods of extreme heat or cold that contradict what Al Gore states in his movie.
…Rich
Having lived in Europe for 8.5 years I can attest to the fact that Europeans have more respect for authority, and a greater sense conservation than most Americans.
They have been ruled by kings who wielded absolute power over them for centruries. Many of the kings/quens that ruled to sternly were overthrown or eventually were replaced by more benevolent rulers, and eventually they turned to more democratic governments.
Europeans have similar rights as we Americans, but there are some limitations to their free speech especially when criticizing their leaders or royalty.
European countries have a very rich history that goes back thousands of years. Churches and cathedrals that were built in the 11th and 12th century are still standing and many still function as churches. They are not just ruins for archeologist to examine.
America was born from the desire to rid ourselves of religious persecution, and tyranny of the European rulers. We respect authority to a certain level, but we do not willingly accept everthing that every authority figure presents to us.
America was created from rebellion and I think that is part of our culture. That is why we have the freedom of speech, the right to bare arms, freedom of religion, or the freedom not to profess a belief in God, etc.
Does that make us right? No. Does it make us wrong? No again!
So in the end it’s part of the American culture to question the authority or theory of so called experts. We all know of the countless medical studies that continually contradict the previous medical study,, which contradicted the medical study prior to that…etc.
We have also seen where many of these worthwhile studies are being manipulated by politicians strictly for political gain.
My own personal opinion tells me that the Global warming we may be experiencing now is not man made, and cannot be solved by man. I think we do need to reduce the pollution in the air, because that poses the most immediate health risk to humans. I also appose using food products like corn to make Ethanol fuel, so long as there are starving people in the world. It has already been shown that switch-grass produces much more ethanol per acre and does not require as much water, grows in poorer soil and several crops can be harvested each year.
As for Global warming, Back in the late 1940’s there was far more pollution and CO2 in the air than there is now or ever has been and the weather was extremely cold. Scientist back then was predicting an Ice Age was coming and it was caused by the high levels of CO2 in the air. As the temperatures warmed the CO2 levels dropped as well. Now that the earch is warming, the CO2 levels may be rising, but the higher CO2 levels are not the cause of the warming, it is the results of the warming.
For every “Fact†that Al Gore and believers in CO2 causes Global Warming, point out some period in history, the opponents can counter just as factually that there were periods of extreme heat or cold that contradict what Al Gore states in his movie.
…Rich
RichardL,
I totally agree with your whole post. Unfortunatly, the scientists have the argument already covered.
Global warming causes extreme heat and extreme cold. It causes severe drought and severe rain. It causes many hurricanes this year, but the following year it will not cause any.
Tom
I totally agree with your whole post. Unfortunatly, the scientists have the argument already covered.
Global warming causes extreme heat and extreme cold. It causes severe drought and severe rain. It causes many hurricanes this year, but the following year it will not cause any.
Tom
Bill V
Well-Known Member
Glad to hear there won't be any hurricanes next year! I'll go ahead and cancel my insurance!
:lol:
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
Last I heard, average global temperature was up 0.6 degrees. Greenland used to be green, not covered in snow and ice. They recently found fossils of tropical plants in Illinois. The climate has changed warmer or colder many times in the few million years prior to the invention of the SUV, burning of fossil fuels, cow farts, and even humans existing on the planet. IMHO the climate may be changing but what we do doesn't necessarily have any effect.
I suspicious in general simply because behind the global warming hysteria are the same people who have been pushing Communism, Socialism, and one-world government for the last 40 years. I see it simply as a tool to reign in the hated capitalism and freedom.
Exactly. They don't say a thing to China, 'cause they know they'll get run over by tanks.
The Dems still have what's left of the blue-collar union vote.
Also I think it's astonishinly hypocritical to worry about global warming on a board dedicated to a ground-pounding SUV. :lol:
I suspicious in general simply because behind the global warming hysteria are the same people who have been pushing Communism, Socialism, and one-world government for the last 40 years. I see it simply as a tool to reign in the hated capitalism and freedom.
R Shek said:
Exactly. They don't say a thing to China, 'cause they know they'll get run over by tanks.
Rich Stern said:
The Dems still have what's left of the blue-collar union vote.
Also I think it's astonishinly hypocritical to worry about global warming on a board dedicated to a ground-pounding SUV. :lol:
