OT: Quiet In the Backyard, Please!

[Bill V]

Thank you for accurately summing up what I was saying, TJR. I agree that there are situations where kids need to be kept somewhat quiet, and others were they need to be kept completely quiet, and it's irresponsible parenting to not do so. But those are generally exceptions--typical (and I emphasize--"TYPICAL") children's play in parks, backyards, etc., needs to be tolderated by everyone within earshot.



However, the "seen and not heard" statement Grumpy made (and others agreed with) makes no such differentiation--it says that kids are not to be heard at ANY level, in ANY situation. So my reply statement about using earplugs was not sarcastic, kidding, or tongue-in-cheek--if you truly feel that you can't tolerate ANY noise from kids, at ANY level, in ANY location or situation, then that's your issue, not the kids'--and it's up to you to either use earplugs or remove yourself from the situation.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

TomT...what BillV said...and he read it the way I read it. "Kids should be seen and not heard" is one of the extremes. It is too idealistic a goal. For people to chime in with agreement to that they either never had kids or had their kids in the 1920s or something.



Regarding the original story; I watched the video, I listened to the tape that was played in court. Yes, the kids were loud and screaming like kids playing sometimes do. I have a pool, and when we get two or three kids in there (especially girls), I too have to remind them to quiet down just because I don't want to hear it myself as I sit with them poolside.



If my neighbors were right on top of me and they had a beef with it I would try further to limit it. I have no reason to think these neighbors with the kids didn't do the same. A 1/2 hour here and there, several times a week, of hearing kids playing (and screaming) in a nearby yard isn't unreasonable...so says the LI judge.



Same with hearing an infant cry in a movie theater, or some kids being a little loud in a FAMILY restaurant. Isolated incidents, especially those where the parents are trying to control, should be expected.



Please don't think I am a "bad parent apologist!"....just the opposite. Dozens of times we have gotten compliments in restaurants on how well behaved and polite our children were (even when they were very young). We coach our children, especially our young teen on what is expected of him when he is in public, especially when we are not around him.



But in all of that, I am a realist and think that I understand reasonable expectations.



TJR

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

WOW!!! Some pretty strong comments on this one. You can tell the ones without kids to the ones with kids. My children (actually my 3 year old son) can be "energetic". Do I let them get away with it? Do I just sit back and let them act like morons? No. Do I let them be kids? Yes. To a point. If they start to get out of hand, then yes, I will TRY to correct them and if it doesn't work, we leave. As for what they do in my property? I pay the taxes and pay the morgage, so they can play however they want. When they are loud, I let them play. If it starts to get to me, I'll tell them to tone it down. If my neighbors have a problem with it, they can pay the taxes and morgage for me or just deal with it. I kept my mouth shut when my wife and I bought the place (we didn't have children at the time) and the neighbor's kids (who were about the age of mine now) played and carried on in thier back yard. So I expect the same respect back. Luckily, our houses aren't as close together as some in bigger cities.

 

[Mark Grumpy]

As for what they do in my property? I pay the taxes and pay the morgage, so they can play however they want.

I will TRY to correct them

That's the problem. And now that you have kids you have become more tolerant of the noise. I suspect it requires a lot more noise to tick you off now than it did before kids. Do your neighbors not pay the taxes and mortgage on their property? Do you have the right to infringe on their peace and quiet if you are not paying the bills? It goes both ways.



And yes, I do have kid and dog. Neither one disturbs the neighbors. I don't like it so I don't expect them too - even though I pay for the space they are in.

 

[Dingo]

For the kids and the dog:



<img src="http://www.safepet.ie/images/guardian_anti_bark_collar.jpg">

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

I understand what you are saying Grumpy, and it's a good point. It take respect from both side to understand the situation. I wasn't insinuating that if they complained that I would tell them to "get bent", but they are KIDS. Kids make noise. Has my tolerance for noise gone down? Nope. I have to tell my kids EVERY day to hold it down. Even in the house with the windows shut. I'm teaching them respect for others, but that only goes so far when they are 3 and 5.



Dingo, nice idea, but for some reason, the public frowns on those when used on kids.

 

[Bill V]

stonemiser--the public can only frown on them if they know about them, which primarily happens if they can see them. Therefore, the secret is to keep them out of view of the public. Instead of installing them around the neck, you need to install/insert them rectally. Not only does it keep the public from realizing they're there, but it also makes the jolt all the more noticed by whoever/whatever is wearing it--and to top it off, the device responds to inappropriate sounds emitted from both ends!

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

Not bad Bill.

 

[Mike Wilson]

O.K....Here I go...



The Kids Need: Playtime, more pool toys, excercise, and metered discipline...



The Neighbors Need: To get a LIFE, quit focusing on the negative, and, Oh, by

the way... A 55 GALLON DRUM OF PROZAC!



We, as a society, complain about all of the negative examples that are set for our

children, we complain about the ever-encroaching lack of freedoms that political

correctness has put upon us as a Nation on-whole, yet we coddle these people who

put their foot in their collective mouths whenever they are ever so slightly inconvenienced.



What the He// has come of this world when we are afraid to let our "Kids be Kids"

for fear of pi$$ing off a couple of "Goody-Two-Shoes" yuppies trying to meditate

to the Hare' Krishna, or whatever, when the come home. Let 'em move in with

the Buddist Monks, or something, where they are almost assured peace and quiet!

 

[Tom Schindler]

In my opinion, this is the reason kids are involved in more trouble with the law today.



When I was a kid, we would play in the woods. We would be kids. We could yell and scream and essentially blow off steam. We rode our bikes and skateboards in the middle of the street. If we acted up in front of another adult when we shouldn;t be, we were punished by that person, AND then taken home to Mom and Dad for "round number two".



Summertime was a time to spend outdoors from dawn to dusk. We knew where we were and were not allowed to go.



Today, the woods have posted "no trespassing signs posted". Kids do not ride in the street with Skateboards and bicycles. If a total stranger even says one thing to a kid about his/her behavior, parents are ready to fight.



Kids need to let off steam. It is part of growing up.



Mom is now never home because she is at work to help make ends meet. When I was growing up, the only time mom wasn't home is when we were all away from the house.



Sad, Sad, Sad.





Tom

 

[Kerry Matthews]

All I can say is that I'm glad that I live on a street that has NO KIDS living on it!!! All the kids have grown up and moved away. There's a family with the little noisemakers living behind me a couple houses over, and their kids make enough noise that if I'm in my yard, I can't stand it. Yes, little kids should be seen and not heard. I grew up listening to that statement, and I believe it... It's why I don't have any, nor do I want any...

I constantly ask my neighbors about my dogs and their barking. They bark, but only for a couple of minutes when I leave them at home alone. I don't want them to be an annoyance.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Most children these days stay indoors playing video games, and as a result they are overweight. The kids in that pool look like normal, healthy kids. They may make a little noise, but kids do that when they are having fun. I think the people with the pool should put up some high hedges, which would block a lot of the noise and add privacy to their back yard. They also should invite the complaining neighbors over for a cookout and pool party. It is just like in apartments, if you invite your neighbors to the party, they can't complain about the noise you are making.

 

[Mike Wilson]

Krash,



I'll respond to your post, with respect, yet, trying not to "suck up" to anyone...:



At one time, remember it or not, you (we) were one of those "little noisemakers" !



We all were, to get to where we all are now (adulthood).



And NelsonOKC,



We, as a society, complain about our children eating "Big Macs", and setting in front of the

T.V., watching it, or playing video games, and yet, there are still some people who will

complain about the children getting out and actually getting some excercise and/or

physical activity and making too much noise!!!



I just don't get the "Double Standard"!?!?:unsure:

 

[Kerry Matthews]

Mike,



My mom used to say that I was a quiet kid growing up. Give me a toy to play with, and I'd entertain myself for hours... So I wasn't much of a 'little noisemaker'.

I used to have renters in the house next door several years back, and their daughter was standing in the front yard one day, screaming her head off. I go out, look around, and ask her... "WHAT the hell are you screaming about???" She looked at me, and answered.... "I don't know." I told her to shut the hell up then! Her mom STILL laughs about it and tells me 'Thank you' for doing it. (They're some of my best friends these days.)

I grew up hearing 'little children should be seen and not heard', and I knew better than to make a bunch of noise and annoy others. That's just me, I guess...

I guess that's why I don't care much for alcohol, either. It makes people loud & obnoxious. And I don't want to listen to 'em...

 

[Bill V]

I grew up hearing 'little children should be seen and not heard', and I knew better than to make a bunch of noise and annoy others.

Let me get this straight--when you were less than two years old, you "knew better" than to be noisy? I'm very impressed--most kids that age have no concept of "knowing better", or of "knowing" at all. Infants and toddlers of that age generally make noise when they want to make noise. And most people who feel as you do about "noisy kids" don't differentiate between an 8 year old and an 8 month old--they're too pissed at the world to tolerate any noise regardless of the source or reason. Sorry, Krash--I'm not buying your "I was a silent angel" act, nor am I buying that this should be a reason to force such a ridiculous standard on others.

 

[Mark Grumpy]

--most kids that age have no concept of "knowing better", or of "knowing" at all.

These days that is true - wouldn't want to hurt their self esteem at too young an age.

Otherwise it's BS!!!! Start discipline early enough, day 1, like a puppy, and they damn sure do know long before they get to two. At two years old my kid sat on a plane from LA to London, non stop and never left the seat once. I know there are those of you that won't believe such a thing, but it's as true as it gets.



2 years old are incapable of knowing better?? - pah!!!!!

 

[Mark Grumpy]

The term "knowing better" may be a little much for a 2 year old - admittedly. Maybe the term trained or taught or disciplined or instructed would fit better.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Amen, Dingo.



The most effective solution to kids and dogs is to inflict some pain and suffering until the problem goes away.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Gavin said:

The most effective solution to kids and dogs is to inflict some pain and suffering until the problem goes away.

Yeah, I know when I was potty training my kids I would just rub their noses in it when they had an accident.



Our youngest used to leave her bed at night when we first tried to get her in a big-girl bed. Problem solved...we just moved her into a porta-kennel, sized for a german shepard...fit her nice and she stayed put at night.



Everything you know about training dogs applies to kids.