Reminder: Have your hillbillies spayed or neutered...

[Josh Langel]

So, there are families out there that want to have a lot of children? Or is that just too "hillbilly?"



I recall my grandparents and their parents having a lot of children...



..or is it just not cool anymore to raise a large family?



Better yet, I say have one child and stay single, so the government can give you some handouts.



Yeah.. a large family supporting themself is bad.



Oh well, we're American, so we know how to live.

 

[Bill V]

Your grandparents and their grandparents were from large families because back in those days, those numbers of people were needed to support the farm or other family operation, and because mortality rates were higher. Those aren't the case anymore, and therefore this is definitely not an appropriate comparison.

 

[Gavin Allan]

I thought families were large back then because they didn't know what caused babies...

 

[Josh Langel]

Bill V, you're right.



I can't believe I fell for the other reasons why parents have more children.

 

[Tom Schindler]

What concern is it of us to really care how many children a family has? Why must we always belittle someone for a choice they make in life? If they can afford it and does not ask for a handout, like many others have already said, what does it matter to you or anyone else.



If they have to buy a Greyhound bus to haul around their family, so be it. I could honestly care less.



Isn't freedom what America all about. Are we advocating what the Chinese do to their children? Is that what we want?





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen, it's called "the norm", and like it or not, when people go wildly outside "the norm" they will get ridiculed. I don't see that ever changing, whether it's long hair when short hair is in style, some living off welfare when most have a traditional work ethic, etc. Ultimately those don't actually hurt anyone either, not in any real way, but man, we all like to comment on them.



America may have it's freedom, and one of them is to be able to comment even in a not so nice way on whatever you want.



Regarding freedoms, however, you can bet that if the average # of kids per couple in this country crept up to 10, or 15, then we would see our "birthing freedoms" questioned if not restricted.



TJR

 

[TomT]

I'm sorry. There's something wrong with ANYONE that has 17 kids. You guys can try to justify it all you want. These people are whackos.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Maybe I think it is wrong for a couple to have one kid. It is a common fact that single children grow up to be more selfish than those born in multiple child households.



We know a family that had 14 kids between the two of them and they were all single births. They lived on a farm of about 300 acres, along with a lake on that property covering 75 acres that is part of a campground on that property. All of their children are now hard working adults that treat everyone with dignity and respect. I can honestly say I love them all.



Just because the greater majority of people have mental problems does not mean they are the way we all should be. (Not ment to offend anyone with psychological issues, for that I am sorry)



If everyone had cancer, that doesn't mean you are wackop for not getting it or it is something you should get because that is the norm.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen said:

Maybe I think it is wrong for a couple to have one kid. It is a common fact that single children grow up to be more selfish than those born in multiple child households.

You would not be alone in that opinion. Many share it and are vocal about it. Many think that young, married couples that are capable of having children, but go their whole married life without having any are also somehow "wrong", and "selfish", and many that feel that way are vocal about it too.



Both cases; the single child, and the no children cases; are not the norm. Anything that is not the norm will be criticized.



Complaining about it won’t help. It will always be the case. Getting on a soapbox might make one feel good, but I haven’t yet found anyone that isn’t critical of something that they find to be different.



TJR

 

[TomT]

If everyone had cancer, that doesn't mean you are wackop for not getting it or it is something you should get because that is the norm.

Hmm, I hardly think comparing something that you have absolutely no control over, like getting cancer, to something that you pretty much have total control over is logical.

 

[Bill V]

I don't have issues with the fact that they have 17 kids. I have issues with the logic-impaired reasons they've stated for doing so (God wants/expects people to pursue all the children then can, their miscarriage was God's punishment for their previous use of birth control, etc.), and that they're passing along that same religion-ignoring-science logic to their future-significantly-sized-voting-bloc offspring.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Bill V, they actually said a miscarriage was God's punishment?



God punishes!!!???



Hhhm, that's news to me.



Maybe in the Old Testament, but the New Testament God is all about love, and forgiveness. I guess they aren't as "Christian" as they thought.



Maybe they shouldn’t procreate after all.



Seems that gene pool is a little cloudy. Time for some chlorine.

 

[Bill V]

The article I saw (not the one linked above, and I'm having difficulty finding it again) didn't use the word "punishment", so I retract that. But it did say something more along the lines that the reason the miscarriage occurred is because God was angered over their use of birth control. I don't think it's a very big stretch to interpret such a comment as saying it was a punishment, but that clarification is necessary.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Yes, Bill V, that would be punishment. I don't see any other way to interpret it. It describes God as either a punisher or an ambivalent diety that allows bad things to happen to those that are not in his favor. That's not the God I pray to. They might was well say:



"the God I pray to says that if you don't believe what I believe then you are going to Hell!"



TJR

 

[Travis Munday]

"That's not the God I pray for"



Regardless of which God you pray for, there is only one God in the Bible, well, two, but I'm not counting Jesus.



The same God that killed all of humanity save for a few on a boat is the same God you are asking for help. The same God that decides to strike down one man's entire family just to see how devout he is is the same God that you pray to. You can't pick and choose which version of God you want to pray to, it is all the same being, if you are a Christian and choose to believe the Bible, Old and New Testaments.



I'm finding it very odd that people are demeaning a family for their religious practices. Who says YOU are right? Who says that God is real? Who says which faith is correct and which is wrong? No one has that authority, even if the Pope thinks he does. What faith you follow, what God(s) you pray to, what morals and ideals you hold in esteem is of your concern and your concern only. Calling someone else a "wacko" because their ideals doesn't line up with yours is simple arrogant, ignorant, and very close-minded.

 

[Dingo]

I can promise that none of us want to see her naked.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Tiger,



Well put. Nobody can prove we are going to heaven, nor can anyone prove we are going to hell or even the existance of either.



Those Heavens Gate people were considered looney because they took their own life because they were told do. We all think they are crazy and I would have to agree. But then again, How much faith do we have? Could we be willing to lay our life down to God if we felt that is what he wanted? Is our faith that strong?



Before we judge someone for their faith, we should look at our own faith first. Look at it as an outsider. You would be suprised how crazy our faith looks from the outside to other people. Be it a Catholic that eats fish on friday during lent or walks around with an ash cross on their forehead on Ash Wednesday, to the snake charming Baptist that carries areound snakes.



It all makes perfect sense when we are inside looking out. When we are outside looking in, it is crazy and we want to label them as such.



This is coming from a guy that has been ridiculed for my faith, my whole life.





Tom

 

[TomT]

Call me what you want. They are still wackos. :wacko::wacko:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Tiger, you are right, it's not for me to judge. Still, I find it kind of hard for "so called" Christians to claim there is a punitive God. It irks me, what can I say. You mentioned the Pope...we have fundie-Christian neighbors who, with a straight face, say things like: "Well Catholics aren't Christians!"



I have a very liberal viewpoint on Christianity, so much so that I actually do NOT assume my version is the only way. What irks me is those that claim that theirs is, and whom describe a very wacked version of the faith (like a punitive God). But still, I don't claim to be right...but that doesn't mean I will stop pointing out where I think others are wrong.



P.S. I never called anyone wacko or labelled them crazy. Actually, I simply said the gene pool needs some mixing up, and moreso the "faith pool". I actually see it as goodness when people of different faiths and backgrounds procreate, because it brings more insights and tolerance to our cultures. Makes me wonder what type of people these 19 kids will grow up to marry...



TJR

 

[Bill V]

Well, there are 10 boys and 7 girls. If they believe in monogamy (they aren't Mormon, after all), the seven girls will marry seven of the boys--leaving three left over to fend for themselves...



p.s. Yes, I'm aware that nearly all Mormons believe in monogamy, and that this family most likely won't be inbreeding (at least, not much--we hope). I'm just making a wise-@$$ humorous remark. If you're thinking to flame me, lighten up.