LaRue Medlin
Well-Known Member
bravo, Tom!
Replacement Key?
- Thread starter Jonathan Graves
- Start date
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Lets get one thing in the open. I am not defending Ford. I am simply saying lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on thier part. A key is not that expensive. Programming it yourself is free. You just have to do your part.
I warned my sister to make a spare for her Explorer. She was too busy and did not have time and the keys were too expensive. Sure enough, she lost a key. She had to ante up the money to pay the dealer to reprogram the key, something she could have done herself for free.
When I got my Trac, a short time afterwards, I ordered 3 keys from Rusty and programed them. I am covered.
Tom
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
I checked eBay, you can buy Pats keys for around $15 each, so they are cheaper if you shop around.
Tom makes a good point, plan ahead while you still have 2 keys and buy spares now!
I'm going to order a pair for my wife's Escape today.
Tom makes a good point, plan ahead while you still have 2 keys and buy spares now!
I'm going to order a pair for my wife's Escape today.
Well, what have you found?
Tom
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
Same question to you Tom. Found any evidence to prove that PATS keys reduce thefts?
Don't bother looking... all the articles I pulled up simply give raw statistics of thefts from one year to the next or stats showing theft rates depending on city or region. Surely, someone has done this research for a college paper, but so far googling hasn't provided me with proof either way.
Don't bother looking... all the articles I pulled up simply give raw statistics of thefts from one year to the next or stats showing theft rates depending on city or region. Surely, someone has done this research for a college paper, but so far googling hasn't provided me with proof either way.
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Jonathan Graves
Member
Good Spirited discussion!
When did I claim this was an emergency for Ford? I still have a working key. This is not ideal, but it's not an emergency in my book. Maybe we are all reading too much into each others comments.
This key itself, uncut and unprogrammed form Ford was quoted as $75. In my budget, that is @$&%! expensive.
If I had gotten a 3rd key up front, it would still have cost the same outrageous amount if I got it from Ford. (If not, the question begs, why the change in price?)
Are PATS keys effective? I am sure against some folks like rank amateur thieves and the occasional joy rider. So with you on that note, I agree. They do prevent SOME theft. Not all, obviously.
As far as evidence for or against PATS keys, Philips Electronics will give you great statistical data about how fine a product they have devised in such keys. However, I also found a report explaining how simply (30 seconds) the 30 bit encryption was cracked with a simple hand held computing device. A car was started in one instance, and gas was purchased on another (gas-key fob). Yet another site openly discussed which wire on a ribbon cable could be cut to disable the PATS system, and then shorted to start the vehicle.
To get back to my original post (and point), Ford overpriced the key replacement. I find it outrageous. As a matter of fact, I found out later it was even more outrageous than originally thought. The quote was $150.00, not the $110 I thought my wife had said.
In the end, I am just a guy who had one vehicle with two keys (one is the spare). One broke, and the dealership tried to charge him $150 to replace it. Then you chose to berate me for not having a spare "spare". While you claim you're not defending the dealership, I don't see the consumer advocacy in your statements.
Should I have had a spare-spare key? Ethically, I don't think I should have had to. Logically, I don't think I should have, either. At least not one from Ford. I would have still paid too much for a key, just at a different time.
Still, there IS is a lesson to be learned here. If you have only two good keys, order one from joefriday2 on e-bay and have it cut, and then program it yourself. It may not be needed, but if it is, at least you'll have it already and it will cost you far less than the dealership.
When did I claim this was an emergency for Ford? I still have a working key. This is not ideal, but it's not an emergency in my book. Maybe we are all reading too much into each others comments.
This key itself, uncut and unprogrammed form Ford was quoted as $75. In my budget, that is @$&%! expensive.
If I had gotten a 3rd key up front, it would still have cost the same outrageous amount if I got it from Ford. (If not, the question begs, why the change in price?)
Are PATS keys effective? I am sure against some folks like rank amateur thieves and the occasional joy rider. So with you on that note, I agree. They do prevent SOME theft. Not all, obviously.
As far as evidence for or against PATS keys, Philips Electronics will give you great statistical data about how fine a product they have devised in such keys. However, I also found a report explaining how simply (30 seconds) the 30 bit encryption was cracked with a simple hand held computing device. A car was started in one instance, and gas was purchased on another (gas-key fob). Yet another site openly discussed which wire on a ribbon cable could be cut to disable the PATS system, and then shorted to start the vehicle.
To get back to my original post (and point), Ford overpriced the key replacement. I find it outrageous. As a matter of fact, I found out later it was even more outrageous than originally thought. The quote was $150.00, not the $110 I thought my wife had said.
In the end, I am just a guy who had one vehicle with two keys (one is the spare). One broke, and the dealership tried to charge him $150 to replace it. Then you chose to berate me for not having a spare "spare". While you claim you're not defending the dealership, I don't see the consumer advocacy in your statements.
Should I have had a spare-spare key? Ethically, I don't think I should have had to. Logically, I don't think I should have, either. At least not one from Ford. I would have still paid too much for a key, just at a different time.
Still, there IS is a lesson to be learned here. If you have only two good keys, order one from joefriday2 on e-bay and have it cut, and then program it yourself. It may not be needed, but if it is, at least you'll have it already and it will cost you far less than the dealership.
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Mark Grumpy
Well-Known Member
If that works, (not saying it won't - seems feasible) wouldn't it be easier just to tape the broken key head to the steering column and use a regular key all the time?? :huh::blink: Maybe velcro so you can take it with you. The you don't need a programmed key.
grump
Gerald Pierce
Well-Known Member
IMHO, There needs to be a way to shut off the PATS if you desire, much like the air bag switch in new vehicles. If you loose a key, or dont care, you should be able to disable the function by inserting a good key and turning the system off, rather than taping a key under the dash.
As I said before, 20/20 (or another one of those types of shows) had an episode about how easy it is to steal a car. Get the VIN, get a key made using that VIN. Take the car. Easy as pie.
Try that with a Trac.
Doomer, I agree, 75.00 is too high for a key. According to a site sponsor, fordpartsfast.com which happens to be a Lincoln Mercury dealer, has the retail price of that same key as $29.95. Thier special price is $17.50 with $3.50 shipping. Check it out for yourself at hppt://www.fordpartsfast.com and click the "Specials" link.
Where the dealer comes up with $75.00 leads me to think they are trying to stick it to you. Don't blame Ford, blame the dealer. IMO, everone should always have a spare key. I even keep a spare key to all my vehicles at my brothers house, and likewise we have a spare set for his house and cars. Again, that is me. That is what I do.
Nothing will stop anyone from stealing your car. A tow truck will take any car they feel like taking. Put it in park with a FWD car and lock the e-Brake and they just lift it on dollies and take it anyways. Most, not all, thieves look for an easy target. Either to drive it to make a drug deal or as a mode of transportation from one part of town to another. That is the ones that the PATS system prevents.
Why should anyone invest in an alarm with starter kill? If they want you car bad enough they are going to take it. It just makes it harder to do so.
I couldn't agree more. I also feel the same should go for ABS, Stability Control, DRL's, and other safety devices.
Tom
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
Tom: saying 20/20 did a story on it doesn't equate to figures proving the case either way. I'd call this discussion a draw.
Darin,
Can you figure out a way to bypass the PATS system?
Tom
Can you figure out a way to bypass the PATS system?
Tom
Deleted deleted
Well-Known Member
There are ways to bypass the PATS system with a rolling code transmitter, as mentioned above.
Do you know how many different possible codes involved in the PATS system. Something like 20 million. That would take many tries to get it to start. Also, when you try to start the vehicle with the wrong time like three times, the system will lock up preventing the use of a scanner.
It is not as easy to bypass as one would hope it would be.
Tom
It is not as easy to bypass as one would hope it would be.
Tom
Jonathan Graves
Member
Friday I received my replacement key and today I purchased a plain blank and had them both cut. Simply holding the head of the broken key against the cheap copy didn't register. The plastic shroud around the ignition prevented it from getting close enough. So I had to cut the head off the cheap copy and also cut down the remaining part of the broken key. Then I fitted the two together to form a whole key. There was enough shank left to pull it out without an attached head. I had decided if this didn't work, I was going to use some gorilla glue and glue the old head on the cheap key. Turns out I didn't have to.
With this done, I just went through the procedure for programming a third key and it worked. I now have two working keys again. I'll order another spare and program it as well. This one I will put away somewhere safe.
Lesson learned: You must have 2 spare keys to avoid this issue. That's a total of three, minimum. My advice is that if you only have two keys, get a third now.
-D
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Jackie Beene
Member
LaRue,
I am sorry, if I offended you with my above comment about my experience with getting a key programmed. However, if he was operating a business as a locksmith, then he should be proficient at opperating his equipment or maybe he should of at least given me a discount for doing HIS JOB. I don't mind paying someone for a product and a job done properly and completely.
Jackie
I am sorry, if I offended you with my above comment about my experience with getting a key programmed. However, if he was operating a business as a locksmith, then he should be proficient at opperating his equipment or maybe he should of at least given me a discount for doing HIS JOB. I don't mind paying someone for a product and a job done properly and completely.
Jackie
