Ryder Cup--can someone explain it?

[Bill V]

OK, I'm at best a casual golf fan. Meaning that I occasionally see part of a round on a Saturday or Sunday afternoon, and will sometimes make a point of watching the Sunday round of one of the majors. And it's fun. I get the appeal of the game, both to its participants and to its spectators.



But I just don't get the appeal of the Ryder Cup. I don't get why the fans care, and I especially don't get why the participants care.



Can one of you help me understand it?



My understanding of golf is as an individual game. The person who puts up the best score wins. But like most other individual sports (such as wrestling, archery, gymnastics, etc.), it doesn't work for me as a team competition, simply because at its core, there is no teamwork truly involved. The team result is simply the result of combining the individual results. You could reshuffle which people are on which team, and each individual would get the exact same result. That shouldn't happen in a true team competition--changing players from team to team would disrupt the team chemistry and cause diminished accomplishments until the chemistry is re-established.



Further, to make this individual sport seem more "team-like", they have come up with some of the most convoluted formats I've seen in major sports. First they do a "foursome", where "teams" (which aren't the actual teams, but sub-teams within the teams) of two take turns taking shots on the same ball. (This is the only time where even the slightest "teamwork" comes into play--and even here, it's not the entire team, but just a sub-team of only two members.) Then the do "four ball", where again they have "teams" of two, but now they each have their own ball, which once again makes the team results (and even the sub-team results) simply a conglomeration of the individual results. And finally they do singles matches.



But the part of the competition that eludes me most of all is the claims of this event involving nationalistic pride. I can sort of see it for the American competitors in the event. But what country exactly did Sergio Garcia compete for over the weekend? Spain wasn't in the event. And Europe isn't a country. If Sergio was competing for national pride, like has been claimed, then why didn't Spain put together their OWN team and compete? Does every country in Europe lack enough talent to go it alone? If the British, for example, can bring in golfers from other European countries, why can't we bring in some Canadian or Mexican golfers? And why aren't the Asian or African golfing nations even allowed to enter? I think I could really understand this event and get into it if it were set up more like the Olympics--every nation for themselves, every nation invited to compete--but as it is, this just doesn't seem worthy of the excitement the competitors exhibit.



Like I said, my goal here isn't to simply rip on the Ryder Cup--I'm really hoping that instead, someone will be successful in explaining it to me, to the point where I might stand a chance of getting at least somewhat enthused. Any takers?

 

[user 62394]

I don't know if I can manage to get you enthused, but I really enjoy the Ryder Cup.



The appeal, for me at least, is the fact that it is different from what you usually see in golf and a very unique tournament.



First, it is a team competition (I realize that you don't like their definition of "team", but I get the feeling there isn't much I can do about that). It is rare in golf that you see the players pulling for someone elseb (their teammates) that openly, so it is a unique aspect to the game. It brings out an emotion, which many people complain that you don't see in golf. I do disagree with you that it is just the sum of the individual scores. There is alot of strategy in who gets paired up with who, and what team their playing against. Do you put your best players against their best, or do you sacrifice someone against their best players and try to get points elsewhere. Do you put your best guys together, or do you pair them with the other guys. If one guy steps up and says, "I'll take on Tiger" or whoever (Tiger wasn't there), it makes the other guys match easier, and they are more likely to get points.



Second, I love the different formats that they play. Again, it is simply something unique to this tournament. You have a few match play tournaments throughout the year, but nothing like this with several formats over different days. It is not the same thing you see every week.



Third, like the Olympics, it doesn't happen every year (Every other year vs. every 4 years, but you get my point). This again, just makes it more unique.



Finally, as for the nationalistic pride thing, I don't think that is quite the case in this tournament, because, as you said, Europe isn't a country. It really comes down to that it has just become a good rivalry. Us vs. Them. They have traded the cup back and forth several times. Ther have been nail-biters, and blowouts. This just makes it dramatic & fun.



I have often said that I would like make it an East vs. West Tournament -- The Americas (North & South) vs Europe / Asia / Africa. But it was intially set up as USA vs. Europe, and will probably stay that way.



On a side note, I went to the Ryder Cup a few years back when it was at Oakland Hills in Michigan (USA got DESTROYED). While I like watching it on TV, I didn't enjoy it attending it as much as I have other tournaments I have been to (several US Opens, Buick Open, Senior Players). The problem was that there were so few golfers on the course at one time, but still about the same number of spectators. It was hard to get close to anything.



So, Bill, that's why I like it. I am guessing that I haven't won you over, but I tried.



Rocks

 

[Frank Marano]

try here:

 

[Jim P]

it is a team effort because the final outcome of the Ryder cup is dependent upon the results of the individual matches, somewhat like a relay race in the olypmics (4x4 relays) the end result is dependent upon the individual efforts of the 4 or 2 team members. The two ball portion of the tourney means that each player takes turns making a shot, its a fun way to play a round of golf, but can be distracting at the same time since you do not hit every shot , you can lose your rymthm of the game so to speak. This also puts additional pressure on the person hitting, as your teammate must play the ball where you put it (creek, water, rough, sand), and its kinda embarassing to hit a bad shot ,then make someone else "fix" your boo boo so to speak. You must focus a lot in this type of match, and where you would place the ball and where your teammate prefers theball to end up, may be different because of the different styles of play, (some players fade the ball, some draw the ball or hit it straight), some prefer sidehill puts over downhill puts, you have to work together to win the hole, that is the goal for 18 holes, just win this hole, don't worry about a par, birdie, whatever, you have to shoot low enough to win the hole/beat your opponents. A bogey can win the hole in match play.

 

[Bill V]

Thanks for the attempts everyone. Some follow up comments/questions:



jimp, I disagree with your relay race analogy. In a relay race, how the runner immediately before and after you handle the baton can immediately impact your leg, and vice versa. But here, except for the "foursome" situation where each pair of players alternate shots, that doesn't happen here. In both the "four ball" and "singles" matches, you still only hit your own ball. Your shot is therefore only affected by you--no team impact.



MTU, regarding pairings, I guess I would need to know more about how the opponents are determined to know how to feel about the importance of this. You said,

Do you put your best players against their best, or do you sacrifice someone against their best players and try to get points elsewhere. Do you put your best guys together, or do you pair them with the other guys. If one guy steps up and says, "I'll take on Tiger" or whoever (Tiger wasn't there), it makes the other guys match easier, and they are more likely to get points.

Yes, but what happens if you decide to "put your best players against their best", but they decide to "sacrifice someone against your best players and try to get points elsewhere"? Obviously, you can't declare that your A player will play their A player if they are simultaneously declaring that their A player will play your E player. Is it decided by a negotiation between team captains? A random draw? Or what exactly?





Has any of this "won me over"? Not really, not yet--but it has provided additional food for thought on the topic, so I guess that is progress...

 

[Ray McIntireJr]

It's the USA against the world!

 

[Richard L]

Bill V,

I am not a big golf fan either, so I cannot really tell you how or why golf fans love the Ryder Cup or anyother golf furnament unless. You just have to like and appreciate the skill required to play golf.



Just like there are football fans, and baseball fans, and NASCAR fans, etc, there are golf fans who just live and breathe for golf.



I think it may be hard to understand unless you have actually played a few rounds of golf before you can appreciate how such a simple looking game can be so damned hard to play. I played a few rounds many years ago. On my first round I did terribly for the first 4-5 holse and then I started to get the right swing and suddenly I was out-driving, out-putting my friends who had years of experience playing golf. I got several pars and even a birdy on the back 9 and felt I found my calling.



That next week I bought a dozen golf balls, tees, and a nice windbreaker for my next round of golf. I even bough a book on golf that showed more about how to control the club and open or close the face of the club, etc. The next round I lost every one of the dozen balls I had bought not to mention the balls that I found in the woods while looking for mine, and I was totally discouraged and only played one other time after that and did not do much better.



I do appreaciate how well people like Tiger Woods, etc can play and know that it is not all just natural talent, it requires a lot of practice and dedication to be that good, yet make it look so easy.



....Rich

 

[user 62394]

Bill,



From rydercup.com



Each team captain submits the order of play for his team to the appointed tournament official. The lists from each captain are matched resulting in the pairings. Pairings cannot be changed unless a player is sick or injured.



So that is yet another game to be played -- will they put their big guns out front or will they keep them back to anchor the group. There is alot of hinting an head games that happen out front. I think that the first two days are somewhat agreed upon by the captains before hand (call it a gentlemen's agreement).

 

[Bill V]

OK, although selecting a sequence is definitely different than selecting pairings or anything like that. With this method, it isn't possible for anyone to say "I'll take Tiger", as you had suggested, as there's no way to be sure what position Tiger will be in the sequence...