Stock 4x4's

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Jacob Dryer

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I realize this is going to be subjective, but how capable is a stock 4x4, not just a ST but any/all actual 4wd (not awd) stock suv/trucks?



I've never owned a 4wd vehicle and whatever I replace the ST with will have true 4wd with 4lo. That being said are they all pretty much the same when it comes to fireroads/logging roads/two track kind of stuff? I'm not talking about major rock crawling or anything like that.. Just getting away to do some of grid camping for the most part.



Jeep has a system they call quatra-drive is it really any different than whatever Ford uses in an Expedition?
 
Obviously "4X4" is a catch-all for many different things that have a wide range of capabilities and weaknesses. But generally speaking, a vehicle with four driven wheels (and a competent driver) does have slightly more capacity for traction than a regular car of similar specifications. Driving styles, specific 4WD/AWD systems, tire selection and other aftermarket equipment can add to that substantially. (You can add a lot of capability to a regular 2WD car using the same tools and tricks, BTW.)



When it comes to truck-style "4X4" systems, there are two basic types: part time and full time. Almost all 4WD trucks use a differential in both the front and rear axles.



Part time 4WD systems are designed to not use the tractive capability of the front axle most of the time. For times when you do need more traction (remember that 4WD does NOT aid braking), part-time 4WD has a relatively simple transfer case that allows power from the transmission to go equally to the front and rear axles. This is great if you're in slippery stuff, but can make things break if you're on solid ground. For the drag racers among us, it's like using a spool on a street-driven car.



Full time truck 4WD systems typically have a third differential located in the transfer case. The differential action of the center differential eliminates binding that can cause parts to fail. And many also have the capacity to be locked, giving them the same capability as part time 4WD. The penalty is paid in extra weight and worse fuel economy.



"AWD" is a relatively new means of distinguishing between light-duty automobile traction-adding systems and the more traditional (and heavy duty) truck systems. Many car AWD systems are state of the art, and far more capable than truck 4WD systems. However because most cars lack the ground clearance to get past deep snow, sand and other obstacles, their primary advantage is in all-out acceleration and road racing uses.



If you're talking about the Jeep Quadra-Drive(R) system and not the Audi Quattro(R) system, the main difference between the Jeep Quadra-Drive and the Ford AdvanceTrac(R) is that the Jeep system uses a simple viscous coupling in place of the differential of a full time 4WD system. Viscous coupling units have been used with varying levels of success as replacements for traditional "spider gear" (with and without clutch-type limited slip functionality) differential.



The Ford Expedition uses a version of Borg Warner's Traction on Demand(R) electronically controlled transfer case. Ford has marketed it under the ControlTrac(R), AdvanceTrac(R) and variants on that theme.



When Borg Warner set out in the 1960's to create Traction on Demand(R), they were trying to overcome an inherent flaw with the traditional clutch-pack limited slip differentials known best under the GM trademark of Positraction(R). At times, the preload that enables additional traction can be a hindrance. If you've ever driven a RWD car with LSD in the snow, and found your rear end sliding off to the right, you have felt one common fault. On dry pavement, this can be great for gratuitous throttle oversteer, but it doesn't help traction.



Eventually, as digital controls replaced analog controls, and the size and cost of digital electronics became smaller (the first version required a separate station wagon full of electronics to operate the transfer case), the Traction on Demand system became more and more practical. By the time that US emissions and fuel economy laws made a computer in every car a necessity, the time was ripe for Traction on Demand.



At some point during development, it became apparent to the engineers at Borg Warner that they could do without the heavy iron "spider gear" differential entirely, and use computer control alone to route power to the front axle. This breakthrough has made Traction on Demand arguably the most advanced automotive 4WD/AWD system available in something that costs less than $100,000.



The 2011 model year will not have a Sport Trac, and the Explorer will be based on a FWD economy car platform. It will get its AWD capability through a Haldex-type system that works like the Jeep viscous-coupling system, except it drives the front wheels first and foremost. I've heard rumors that Borg Warner will be producing a FWD/transverse engine transaxle for the new Explorer that uses its Traction on Demand technology, but it's still a rumor. The 2011 Expedition will continue to use the RWD-biased Traction on Demand system. Get 'em while you can!

 
My F-250 was awesome off road. Sand pits, woods, mud. Even pulled a submerged car out of its watery grave(for Earth Day). My F-350 dually, crew cab, 4X4, diesel was a beast, I could pull anything and not even know it was there. BC
 
We have a 4x4 Explorer. We were shocked with what it can do off road. Simply awesome.



I can only imagine what a Jeep can do.





Tom
 
Caymen I know you are a Ford lover so I'm curious if that means you think the stock Jeep would have better 4wd capability than the Ford. Not a dig, not trying to start anything, just really don't know much about 4wd stuff.. so if it really is better its something to consider when I'm shopping for the ST replacement.
 
I can only imagine what a Jeep can do.

You're in luck, Tom! You can rent a Jeep from Enterprise and other rental car companies. My Tennessee cousins all drive Jeeps, so I got to try several this summer. I wasn't pulling stumps, saving stranded Hummers or doing much more than driving along the occasional gravel road in heavy rains. The biggest difference I noticed with the Jeeps was that you had to remember to check your transfer case settings; it wasn't automatic like my ST is, and all too easy to not notice that someone left it in 4-Lock and didn't change it back.



It wasn't a fair contest when it came to traction control, since the Jeeps only had a puny six-banger. :bwahaha:



Seriously, there's no magic to Jeeps. It's just another brand. From what I hear, the Bantam/Willys Jeep of WWII fame was well received when it was new. (Ford made a lot of them, BTW.) But a current Jeep uses the same OEMs that a lot of their competition does.



One of the things that attracted me to my Gen2 ST was the unique and innovative drivetrain that nobody else could match. I know, I know...for off-road purists only solid axles and locking everything will do. But for my purposes, the ST is just right. :love:

 
I've traveled on a lot of Northern Michigan 2 tracks, and my 4x4 ST has done fine for this. Had a problem with deep sugar sand once, but anyone would have problems with that...



The 4x4, from all manufacturers, will give you better traction in the slippery stuff. It also allows you to get moving from a standing start a lot easier in the slippery stuff. However, 4x4 can also get you 4x as stuck if you think you can go anywhere... :grin: It won't do any better in ice, though, than a 2 wheel drive. And it won't do ANYTHING to help STOP you better!



I wouldn't be without mine for the times it's snowy or when on a muddy construction site, or a slippery 2 track. As the OP mentioned, for just getting off the main road, the 4x4 that most manufacturers have would be just fine. BTY: I have only used my 4 LOW a handful of times... Mostly for crawling up a rocky 2 track in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. It just gave a little more control and power to get up and over some of the uphill sections of the road. Probably didn't need it, but it was nice to have...
 
With a traditional 2WD vehicle, unless you have a locker or limited slip rear end, you really only have a single tire doing the loaded work at any one time.



When you add 4WD to the formula (no locker or limited slips still) you gain a second tire doing work.



This equates to two times the work being done in the 4WD application.



If you have a locker or a limited slip rear end, then you improve things even more.



Generically speaking, 4WD's are CONSIDERABLY much better over a 2WD model.



As mentioned above, Jeeps do tend to be better than most for some reason. Not sure if it is a gear ratio thing or because of the wheel base difference, but they just feel better when you are looking for 4WD application.



In the late 80's, Dodge had a really good system, but they were harder to work on and more expensive to repair. As long as they were good, they were great. When they started to fail, it got hard to get parts and expensive fast...



In general, as long as you can afford a 4WD, they are the way to go in my opinion. Safer on the roads as far as "going" is concerned. And, they will actually stop a bit better if you don't spike the brakes (meaning in snow applications). If you let the drive train drag (coast or use the tranny down shifting for example) you will get at least two tires with resistance as compared to 2WD where there is only 1 tire with resistance.
 
Caymen I know you are a Ford lover so I'm curious if that means you think the stock Jeep would have better 4wd capability than the Ford. Not a dig, not trying to start anything, just really don't know much about 4wd stuff..



Absolutly! Just look at the wheel placement of a Jeep and look at its approach angle vs. anyone. Jeeps are awesome off-road. Of course, depending on what your definition of "off-road" means could be completely different than mine.



If crawling over 24" logs and through 16" of muddy water is major off-road for you, that just about any 4x4 is fine for you. If something is more than that, then a Jeep, or Land Rover, is what you need.





Tom
 
just bigger tires (cross terrains) stock height did awesome. Its about how you drive your 4x4 in situations as much as it is vehicle capability.

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With a traditional 2WD vehicle, unless you have a locker or limited slip rear end, you really only have a single tire doing the loaded work at any one time. ... When you add 4WD to the formula (no locker or limited slips still) you gain a second tire doing work.

Actually you do get some work from the unloaded tire(s). It's just not enough to be noticeable most of the time. The math is pretty simple. With an open differential, the total tractive force equals twice (for 2WD) or four times (for all-open 4WD) the tractive force that can be exerted by the tire with the least traction.



So if you're on polished ice for example, you might be limited to 10 lb.-ft. of torque from the spinning wheel. With 2WD (front or rear, it doesn't matter) you'll get a total of 20 lb.-ft. The problem is what you'll notice the most is how unintentional sideways acceleration can be as great or greater than forward acceleration. 4WD not only gives you a whopping 40 lb.-ft., it also applies it equally to all corners. So now instead of a car that's trying to turn circles around itself, you have a concerted effort that is not only more effective, it feels more stable!



Locking the center section may or not help matters. If a front wheel can sustain more torque than the weakest rear wheel, then yes, it will help. If not, then it's really not helping. But because the front and rear axles are turning at the same speed, it feels more stable and increases driver confidence.



Needless to say, once you get into limited slip and locking differentials, viscous couplings, ABS-activated wheel speed governors and other devices that hope to increase overall traction, it gets very complex very fast. :grin:

 
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I didn't completely understand the original question but I just happen to own a sport trac 4x4 and a grand cherokee with quadra drive. Both are from 2001. So if there is some question you had that has not been answered let me know.



I also have an IH Scout II, wrenching and wheeling are my hobbies. I live in southern California where there is not much water or mud. I do wheel in the desert, the mountains and occasionally in the dunes, so that is the kind of wheeling I know about.
 
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