Supreme Court really "F-ed" on this one...

[Kevin Palmer]

Supreme Court upholds Westboro Baptist Church's right to stage anti-gay protests at funerals of U.S. troops.



This one is really upsetting.



Funerals have NOTHING to do with "gay"...



I understand free speech and what not, but to go to a funeral of any, especially that of a military person is simply wrong with the intention to protest.



The total irony to it all is,,, if not for the US Military they would not have the right to free speech in the first place. Further, they would likely be speaking in a different language (as in NOT English...)



Lets see if one of the individuals is "ok" with someone coming to one of their kids or grand kids funeral and protest...

 

[Les]

Self-absorbed fanatics...

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I hate that these guys, what they say, when they say it, how they say it, and where they say it...



... but I will support their right to say what they want, when they want, where they want.



Unfortunately, that's what our freedoms are all about.



I also support the Hell's Angels rights to their own free speech, what with holding large flags in front of these guys, etc.



Yes, it would be nice if we could single these guys and this specific situation out and declare them as tresspassers, whatever... but that is a whole slippery slope, pandora's box. We support when those that we all disagree with get silenced, but when we allow that, it is one step closer to silencing any of us.





Coastie,



Given that the SCOTUS is supposed to simply uphold our existing laws, exactly what laws should they have used and shown that these nuts violated in order to stop these guys from these protests?



- Tresspassing? Seems they didn't.



- Hate speech? That's next to impossible to uphold in most cases.



Unfortunately, there are no laws broken here. And, THANK GOD, the SCOTUS isn't chartered with making new laws.



TJR

 

[EddieS'04]

TJR, your right it is a catch 22.



On the other hand. IMO, these folks are not a church or even baptist. If they were they would not exercise what they call free speech. Especialy at funerals, they are sacred. They need to study the word more. Jesus would never do this or condone it.



I see what they do as emotional terrorism. If you were to do this type of stuff to your spouse. You could get arrested. Or have a court order put on you of no contact.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Eddie,



True, they are not Christ-like, or following his teachings. There are countless throughout history that have bastardized the word and used it for their own purposes. Unfortunately, that in itself, is not illegal.



Now, if what these guys is saying could be deemed to fall under "Hate Speech", then they could be silenced...



Unfortunately, to constitute as true hate speech there needs to be some immenent threat of violence caused by the speech or the speaker. That often is not the case, which is why silencing people, legally, because their speech is hateful isn't an easy thing to do.



If I hold up a sign that says: "God Hates ****", it is unfortunately not the same as if I hold up a sign that says: "Kill All **** Now!", and have guns and knives free for the taking. Whether I hold up either sign at a funeral seems to not be the issue at all...though it is reprehensible nonetheless.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

This is no different that Pat Robertson saying that the terrible storms we had over this winter was God making this happen to keep people from doing "Gay Things".



With free speech comes great responsibility. Unfortunatly, too many people fail to see this.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Caymen gets it!



TJR

 

[EddieS'04]

With free speech comes great responsibility. Unfortunatly, too many people fail to see this.

Totaly agree......

 

[TrainTrac]

I also support the Hell's Angels rights to their own free speech, what with holding large flags in front of these guys, etc.

That's not the Hell's Angels, but the Patriot Guard Riders. Their main mission is to shield the mourning family and their friends of Veterans from interruptions created by any protestor or group of protestors.



They were created as a direct response to the Westboro nutjobs. My Dad has been a member of the PGR for years. They're a great group. Check 'em out at: <A HREF="http://www.patriotguard.org/">http://www.patriotguard.org/</A>



While I find the actions and speech of the Westboro nuts despicable, I do agree with and support the court's ruling on this matter. Hopefully another legal method can be found to stop these zealots. The real question is where do they get their money from? WBC is not affiliated with any major church or religious organizaton, and the congregation consists of mostly founder Fred Phelps and his brain-washed family members. So where do they get the funds to operate and continuously travel around the country to protest? Moreover, who bankrolled their defense in this lawsuit all the way to SCOTUS? That's expensive in and of itself. If a legal means to cut off their money can be found, then perhaps they can be silenced.

 

[Andy Chase]

Unfortunately they will be protected, because they stayed the certain distance away and blah blah blah but it's still very unrespectful and IMO unmoral.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Stupid Baptists.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Andy, I agree that it is repugnant... Just not illegal.



TJR

 

[Richard L]

I don't see why the state or federal government could not pass a law that banned protestors or picketing within 1000 ft of a cemetary or church. Many states already have laws about guns, bars, or adult entertainment within specific distances from churches and schools, etc.



...Rich

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Richard L,



They can. Then the church nuts can petition the courts, all the way up to the supreme court to challenge such laws as unconstitutional, if they so choose.



TJR

 

[H D]

I don't like the results of upholding their freedom of speech but the big picture here was the precedent that could have been set. I applaud the SCOTUS for this decision even though I dislike the implications.

 

[gary s]

"Caymen gets it!"



on very rare occasions :bwahaha: j/k

 

[Les]

Stupid Baptists.

The WBC is not affiliated with any known Baptist conventions or associations. The church describes itself as following Primitive Baptist and Calvinist principles, though mainstream Primitive Baptists reject the WBC and Phelps.

 

[Richard L]

TJR,

After I wrote my post about "Why not pass laws to prevent protests and demonstrations within 1000 feet of churches and cemetaries" I saw the news report about this ruling, and they said that 21 states have such laws and they have stood up to all appeals so far.



In Texas, it's legal for cities and towns to control or limit certain activities that are within 1000 ft of their city limits, which I thought was a bit extreme? IE: if a town is dry, you cannot sell alcoholic beverages within 1000 ft of that town's borders.



I firs heard of this law when I lived in a town that banned fireworks, but every year stands selling fireworks would be set up just outside of the city limits. Then it was announced that cities/towns, could apply their laws and ordinances up to 1000 ft of their geographical city limits, and they shut down all the fireworks stands. Of course there was pissing and moaning from the people who owned the fireworks stands, but all their appeals were denied



...Rich

 

[Tom Schindler]

We all know if you move the bars and firewaork stands down the road another 1000', people will not go the distance for some booze and explosives.





Tom

 

[Kevin Palmer]

TJR,

You are correct about the mentality of what law would they uphold, officially I do agree with you.



I guess my point is, there is ABSOLUTELY no good that comes with this type of protest. They are just doing it to be mean.



Choose a different front, like a court house if it is your intention to make a point.



Not a VERY personal event like a funeral. I CANNOT believe one of the fathers has not simply taken a gun and fired at them.



And when that does happen, some poor father will go to prison...

Now there is justice...