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SportTrac Discussion
General Sport Trac Discussion
Texas considering similar immigration law
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<blockquote data-quote="Thomas Rogers" data-source="post: 922709" data-attributes="member: 60724"><p>RichardL said </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The bill and the law, as written cannot be enforced, IMHO, without potentially (and moreso, probably) trampling on the 4th amendment rights of citizens.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Richard L said: </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, it is perfectly legal for a policeman to stop and question someone. If the person in question is not being detained (no probable cause), then it is a consensual stop, and the person DOES NOT need to identify themselves. So is the law in most every state, and the root of such statutes is the 4th amendment.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have absolutely NO issue with the Arizona bill if it specifically states that people can only be asked for their proof of legal status if stopped for some other issue, OR if the bill CLEARLY defines probable cause for stopping someone suspected of being illegal. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>In the absence of such changes to the bill, I see no way that it can get enforced without rights violations.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Richard L said: Then let's fix the bill and its law before it gets out there as I described and avoid as many violations as possible.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Richard L said: </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't assume. Just the contrary. Given no specific definition of what constitutes probable cause for assuming someone is illegal then there is no criteria from which to ASSUME most stops (any stops) would be warranted and legal.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Link the stop to some other infraction or cause, or clearly define what probable cause is for being suspected an illegal and the bill is FINE by me.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>TJR</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Thomas Rogers, post: 922709, member: 60724"] RichardL said The bill and the law, as written cannot be enforced, IMHO, without potentially (and moreso, probably) trampling on the 4th amendment rights of citizens. Richard L said: Yes, it is perfectly legal for a policeman to stop and question someone. If the person in question is not being detained (no probable cause), then it is a consensual stop, and the person DOES NOT need to identify themselves. So is the law in most every state, and the root of such statutes is the 4th amendment. I have absolutely NO issue with the Arizona bill if it specifically states that people can only be asked for their proof of legal status if stopped for some other issue, OR if the bill CLEARLY defines probable cause for stopping someone suspected of being illegal. In the absence of such changes to the bill, I see no way that it can get enforced without rights violations. Richard L said: Then let's fix the bill and its law before it gets out there as I described and avoid as many violations as possible. Richard L said: I don't assume. Just the contrary. Given no specific definition of what constitutes probable cause for assuming someone is illegal then there is no criteria from which to ASSUME most stops (any stops) would be warranted and legal. Link the stop to some other infraction or cause, or clearly define what probable cause is for being suspected an illegal and the bill is FINE by me. TJR [/QUOTE]
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SportTrac Discussion
General Sport Trac Discussion
Texas considering similar immigration law
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