Toyota in the news

[Josh Langel]

What are the unfair advantages you speak about, Caymen?

 

[Tom Schindler]

Have you read the article?





Tom

 

[Josh Langel]

Yes, so what's the excuse on Ford, GM, and Chrysler for poor quality products? I only saw where it said Toyota has sold more cars and is going to surpass GM as the #1 auto manufacturer. Not one place did it mention how the "old Big 3" were going to build a better car, instead it sounded like they were pointing fingers at the one company that seems to be making something that actually works.



Unfair? Yes, we should be able to buy a quality vehicle from any company, not just Toyota.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Mud, Caymen,



The article doesn't really mention any wrong-doing. It is as objective as it can be from an Ohio based paper and a DETROIT based report. The article's main points are that Toyota is prepared for backlash and it has downplayed it's growth in the market, no doubt to try to curb much of that backlash. It also discusses what some Michigan senators want to do to change the tides on Toyota...surprise, surprise. I wonder if the senators from NY will agree?



Sure, there is talk about Japan manipulating currencies, but again, that's sour grapes. The bottom line is that people want and have come to expect Japanese imports at a certain price and value proposition and current laws and practices are providing that. It's people getting what they want. Sure, a minority of auto workers and the senators that serve their districts want different, but the aren't "the people."



It's political pandering and crying by the few, to tell and force the many on how and what they should buy.



Those from the cheap seats like to villify the winner.



TJR

 

[Mark Grumpy]

Since Toyota Motor Co. announced in February 2003 that it would open a truck plant in San Antonio, various groups have estimated the economic impact of the new operation. The most commonly estimated impact is for the total number of jobs created. This is usually based on the number of employees who will work at the plant—2,000—and a multiplier based on supplier and other indirect jobs. For example, the Texas comptroller’s office forecast that the state would gain 16,000 jobs, 12,000 of them permanent. The UTSA Institute for Economic Development estimated an impact of 7,300 jobs in Bexar County.

This is a couple years old. But, I think it shows maybe, just maybe, someof us don't know what we are talking about when we talk about where Toyota is getting it's parts.



entire article at the link



grump

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Grumpy, file news like that under the "Damned if you Do, Damned if you Don't" column.



Toyota creates some jobs, helps some local economies....it's just if they sell and do well it means that someone else does worse, because we can't POSSIBLY own any more cars in this country than we already do (the market's not a growth market). So when Toyota does well, a Ford fan cries foul.



TJR

 

[Alan Peters]

Much of the topics here were leaked out in a internal memo. What also is not being reported is a Asian car tax. You'd pay an additional tax onto of sales tax in order to combat the weak yen. What's not being said here is Toyota dealer lots have 30-60 day inventories, very uncharacteristic of Toyota. Prius aren't selling. Most, if not all Toyota's now are rebated 1.9 to 3.9% and cash back. Also, Toyota is spending an extra 800 million on the truck planet plus the multi billion dollar settlement about engine sludge. Toyota management is more concerned about volumn than quality. That's was the talk at the autoshow and across the suppliers. If you compare a 2 year old Toyota to an 2007 the trim gaps, quality in material, and performance aren't present anymore. Toyota management has recongized it and trying to combat it.



If you want I have a copy of the memo. Face it, Toyota is in the beginning stages of GM downward crash in the 80's. That's what Toyota is trying to do. Their more concerned about number 1 than quality. Managers see it. Its in the memo.

 

[tom prudhomme]

Toyota gets advantages that the US automakers do not get.

What, like a more intelligent management that decides to produce vehicles that people worldwide would buy?

 

[Josh Langel]

I will admit: Of all the vehicles I have ever owned, the Sport Trac is my favorite. Not for its quality, but because of what it was. Ford did make a very successful "niche" vehicle and everyone else followed. I ill hand it to Ford for that.

 

[gary s]

point the blame anyway you can, but there is no doubt that toyota, nissan , honda are superior than the domestics. that is the bottom line and a smart consumer will buy the better product regardless of where it is built. face the facts .case closed, good night

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

I hear ya Mudflap!!! Koodos to Ford for the ST.

 

[Robert Poole]

At my plant in Atlanta we used to build Tauruses. Now it is idled....back in 1996/1997 we built Tauruses with RHD for Australia and Japan. 1 out of 7 cars were RHD and we couldn't build them fast enough. The Wagon was especially popular. The japanese consumer preferred the Taurus wagon to the Camry wagon of the same time period. Toyota complained to the japanese gov't about it and the Japanese gov't changed the requirements for entry into Japan for the Taurus. they changed the gas tank requirement from 15 gallons to 18 and the floorpan that the Taurus had wouldn't meet the new requirements. So we had to quit selling in Japan. Several of the engineers at the plant told me about it. they were pretty disgusted. When you see the words "Japan INC...they ain't kidding. Japanese government works side and side with their industry, unlike ours that seem to be at odds with its industry.



Have a good one



Bob

 

[Tom Schindler]

Robert,



I know that. Others don't care. They think it is OK having to compete with a country that allows one way trade.





Tom

 

[Nelson Atwell]

If Ford really wanted to sell their vehicles in Japan, they could build a plant there to bypass import duties, like Japan does here. They would need to design a vehicle specifically for Japan, because they have the steering wheel on the right-hand side. It would need to be small, because of fuel prices. Pickup trucks would be pointless, since most Japanese live in the city and have little use for a pickup bed.



Even if they did build this new vehicle, Ford would need to realize that the majority of Japanese ride public transportation. They also would need to sell their vehicle cheaper than the Japanese, since their is a perception that US cars are inferior to Japanese. In the current market, US companies are only able to sell very large sedans, like Cadillacs, or SUVs, because similar models are not made by Japanese companies for their domestic market. These SUVs and sedans are status symbols of the rich and are very unusual to see on the roads.



The same situation exists in Korea. Koreans are very nationalistic about their cars. You will find very few US or Japanese cars on their roads, even though the quality of Korean cars was lacking until recently. When Daewoo was going out of business, GM stepped up to buy them. The employees protested and said they would not work for GM. However, faced with having no job if Daewoo went bankrupt, they finally came to an agreement to work. I left Korea shortly after that takeover, so I don't know if Koreans buy Daewoos now that GM owns them. I do know that Americans are buying them though, because there are an awful lot of Chevy Aveos (built by Daewoo in Korea) on the road.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Nelson, stop adding logic and common sense to the debate. We all know that the only thing keeping American auto manufacturers out of Korea and Japan is the bad governments. If we could open those markets we would swing the trade deficit the other way. Every Japanese wants to drive an Excursion.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

I forgot about that rule TJR. I hope Rich doesn't ban me. :lol:

 

[Robert Poole]

RHD on my statement meant *Right hand drive* these Tauruses were made especially for the Japanese/Australian market. The gas tank requirement was imposed by the Japanese Gov't. The Koreans would buy Tauruses for Police cars. We sent a lot of them over until about 2005.



have a good one



Bob[Broken External Image]:

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Thanks for the info, Robert. It sounds like what you are saying is that the Japanese govt works closely with its corps to assure standards are defined and met, and it's a beneficial relationship, unlike here in the states where to totally mess things up all you need to do is involve the govt.



Maybe the problem is that our companies aren't used to working in that mode, and having that close a relationship with govt, and because of that can't react as quickly and easily as it needs to for things like changing gas tank sizes, etc.



Or, maybe we could simply be a pessimist and say that the Japanese govt changed the standard to un-level the playing field and throw a road-block (or at least a speed bump) up for our companies (I don't think that way).



For the gas tank change, what does it say when a 20% larger gas tank can't be refit onto a car....it tells me that bean counters did the math, and the profit from anticipated Japanese sales wouldn't cover the re-engineering and refit.



TJR

 

[blksn8k]

This is amazing, I actually agree with Caymen on most of this stuff! I think most Americans are too naive or too stubborn to admit that foreign companies and governments, the Japanese in particular, look at us as a bunch of babbling idiots with deep pockets. They will exploit our markets until we put a stop to it or the markets no longer exist. At some point it will be the latter. Its inevitable.

 

[Tom Schindler]

For the gas tank change, what does it say when a 20% larger gas tank can't be refit onto a car....it tells me that bean counters did the math, and the profit from anticipated Japanese sales wouldn't cover the re-engineering and refit.

Maybe it just isn't possible to fit a larger tank in there.





Tom