Truck "Squats"

[Keith S]

With just 3 25lbs bags of sand in the bed my ST sits about 2-3in lower than the unloaded ride height. I will be changing out the OEM shocks with Rancho 5000 series. Just wondering if I should replace the OEM coils as well? The truck now has 76,000 miles on it and I do not know if they have been replaced. Any help os welcomed.



Thank you,

Keith

 

[Todd Z]

Shocks have NOTHING to do with ride height.



I believe the ST springs are progressives, so changing them with OEM ones may result in he same thing. You may need aftermarket ones, But this will change the ride quality as well.



Todd Z

 

[Yardsale]

Two to three inches with 75 pounds? That seems like a lot of sag.

Maybe something is broken??



Agree - typical shocks (non-air, non coil-over) have nothing to do with ride height.



How much beer in the ice-chest?

 

[Keith S]

As far as I can tell visually and running my hand around the coils there isn't anything broken. However the coils have began to rust. Bouncing the front, the recovery is fine. Bouncing the rear, recovery is 3 small bounces after initial in a counter-clockwise bounce.



*when "loaded" rear suspension is 2-3in lower than the front suspension*



@Todd - I was under the impression that the shocks helped with both ride quality and the added weight to a vehicle



@Yardsale - no beer, as I do not drink alcohol very often

 

[Keith S]

Just unscientifically did some testing. With my everyday equipment in the bed (automotive jack, tire stops, tow strap, D ring shackle, 2 1 1/2ft 4x4s, empty 2 gallon fuel jug, and a fire extinguisher) the rear suspension from ground to trim is 33 1/2", the front suspension is 34". With 300lbs loaded into the bed the rear is at 33", front unchanged. With 450lbs loaded rear is 32 3/4", front unchanged. I don't know why the suspension was so low over the weekend as I know I did not pack more than 450lbs of clothing...

 

[Jackson Ellis]

The spring or coil is the actual physical resistance to lowering the ride height. When you bounce the truck, the shock is what should be stopping the bounce with maybe one rebound. The shock will also slow the compression of the coil with it's hydraulic force, but if you load weight and leave it in, the shock is not affecting the final resting place of the ride height.



I just checked mine on the way to the mailbox. I pushed down with all of my 220 pounds on the ball of the tow package, which should give me a good bit of leverage. The truck went down maybe an inch, maybe less. When I jumped off, it rebounded up and stopped moving.



I then "unloaded" about 150 pounds (maybe more with the leverage) by lifting on the trailer hitch. The truck lifted about an inch. So, theoretically, I should be able to drop the truck almost 2 inches if I first unloaded some weight (the spare tire, the tonneau cover, and all the tools in my bed compartments might lose it 100 pounds or so.)



If you have 3 inches of drop, either you've got worn out coils, you've lost a few hundred pounds of weight from the back, or both. Also, since you have 3 rebounds, you've got bad shocks.

 

[Yardsale]

*when "loaded" rear suspension is 2-3in lower than the front suspension*

This is different. How does it sit with no load? Do you recall this being different than when you first got it?



Pictures always help.

@Todd - I was under the impression that the shocks helped with both ride quality and the added weight to a vehicle

Sort of. If you were to replace your current shocks with something more "heavy duty" (stiffer), they would reduce the amount of bounce over the current shocks with them same load and, depending on how much stiffer, reduce the amount of bounce with a heavier load. Unless they are air or coil-over shocks (and, in this case, it is still the spring part that carry weight), they don't carry load, just control movement.



You certainly can get coil-over shocks that have both stiffer shocks and stiffer springs.

 

[Keith S]

@Yardsale - correct me if I am wrong but I thought that what the Gen 2 ST is coil-over shocks. And I measured it today; with no load from bottom of trim above tire to ground the front is 34" and the rear is 33 1/2, both driver and passenger sides measured the same.

 

[blksn8k]

Keith, I have the Rancho Quick Lifts on all four corners of mine and you saw the ride height. It handles better than new and I get very little squat when loaded or towing. The shocks are also 9-way adjustable. For me they were well worth the investment especially considering that I am running BFG All-Terrains in size 265/65/18. With the stock springs I had a rear tire rub when loaded or towing over larger road irregularities. They would even rub with three adults in the back seat. The last thing I towed was my Kubota tractor that weighs about 5600 lbs plus the weight of a tandem axle, wooden bed trailer. With all that I had maybe an inch of squat. I towed it about 60 miles over mostly two-lane back roads in western PA with no issues. Proper draw bar height and trailer load distribution obviously have a lot to do with tongue weight but I can guarantee I never could have towed that kind of load with the original shock/spring package on those roads without a lot of tire rubbing.

 

[Keith S]

@blksn8k - I looked into getting Rancho's Quick Lift when I first got the truck due to the 9 position adjustable shock. Contacted Rancho via their site to find out if the Quick Lift would fit the truck, since it was not listed as a part that would fit, and was promptly told that it would NOT fit...think they might want to be notified about that since they are turning customers away from buying their product :/ Since I was told that it would not fit (obviously it does) I looked in other ways to achieve ground clearance and ride quality. Was looking into a "3in" lift/level kit along with new shocks and new upper a-arms.

 

[blksn8k]

Keith, the Quick Lifts have been on my truck for about a year and a half (at least 20k miles). I went through a similar process as you but found that others had installed them on their Tracs with good results regardless of what the catalogs say. The upper bolts on the rears were a little difficult to get a wrench on but it can obviously be done. I installed them by myself in my garage without a lift. I had a four-wheel alignment done after the install and tire wear has not been an issue. The truck now has just over 106,000 miles and I am still on my second set of tires since new. I have never driven the truck on the stock tires. I had the dealer install the first set of BFGs before I took delivery. No regrets.

If you are looking for more ground clearance like I was larger diameter tires will obviously get you gains at the axles that a suspension lift alone cannot. The original 235 series Michelins were about 30" diameter and the 265 series BFGs are 31.7". I used the stock 18" Limited wheels. I assume your truck has 17" wheels so your tire size options are a little different. I also had to use a programmer to correct the speedo.

 

[Keith S]

@blksn8k - yes, my truck has 17" rims. Tire size is 245/75/17. With the "3in" lift I will be upgrading the rims with a slightly less positive offset, larger tires either 32's or 33's, and new upper a-arms on the front

 

[Yardsale]

You are correct - you have coil-over shocks.



A half-inch difference with no load and two to three inches with 75 pounds? I don't know; seems odd to me.



I have the Rancho RS9000XL shocks (nine position damping adjustment) and I like them a lot.



Keep in mind, if a product fits a vehicle, but was not designed for it, the manufacturer (typically) will not advise installing it (because of the the lawyers). This does not mean it won't work.

 

[Keith S]

@Yardsale - it puzzles me too. I can't even recreate it. Where I was at it was a fair amount colder and between two lakes. Could weather be a factor?

 

[Yardsale]

Weather should not be a factor. Was it on level ground or "nose high"?

 

[Keith S]

All different types of surfaces both flat and non.

 

[Jackson Ellis]

The squatting over the weekend was probably just a combination of multiple factors affecting the weight in the rear and how you measured it. A full tank of fuel can weigh 130 pounds over a dry one (gas is about 6.3 pounds/gallon). The ground could have been uneven causing weight shift to the rear. The ground could have been too rough to get a good measurement. Or if not on pavement/concrete, then the weight of the truck compressed the ground under the tire, meaning you measured from a spot higher than the bottom of the tire.



Regardless, when you did your testing yesterday under controlled parameters, you got numbers that are more in line with what you'd expect.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Put me, Caymen, and the old Todd in the back and see how much it sags!!!



:banana:

 

[Keith S]

@Gavin - I'm not little myself. 6' 4" and 243lbs

 

[Gavin Allan]

You are a pup!