U.A.W.

[Mike Wilson]

When they put us down, (U) will (A)lso go (W)ith us. Think about this when a lot of y'all

are changing the sheets on a motel bed for $3.00 an hour! We (U.A.W.) fought hard

to get a lot of y'all a good wage and standard of living. But when you side with the

Anti-Union Asians, and the like,and are dissin' us Union Members, don't be suprised when you

get the "I Told You So's"!



And to those of you in the Tech Industry, who think, because of your many degrees, and

years of training and college, that make you so much smarter and better equipped to

handle this situation than the "average factory rat", that you are going to ride it out, and

be "immune" to it?!?! Just call Bell South, DirecTV, Verizon, Comcast, (hell, even my own

G.M. Help Desk) customer service phone numbers, or help lines, and see if you can

understand one out of ten words they are saying, unless you speak Indian or Pakistani

languages or dialects!



Unless we "Circle the Wagons", You Are Next!!!



My Daddy used to say, "Thank God I didn't give up all my years of common sense for

a few years of 'book learnin' ". Smartest man I ever knew!

And, yes, my daddy was from a simpler time, but common sense is "Timeless"!

 

[Bret Pardew]

ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz........................................

 

[MARVIN McINTYRE 2]

trac, I kinda agree with you on the Union thingy, I was with the Telco Union for 8 years with the now defunct General Telephone system here in Texas. They were there to protect us when we had issues with the "Shirt Jerks" running things. They sold out to Verizon and things went awry from then on (funny you mentioned them) I know others will pine in on this, but to each his own!

 

[Nelson Atwell]

Having common sense and a college degree are not mutually exclusive. I've met many who have neither common sense nor a degree as well.



As far as the UAW...this sort of thinking is what has our car manufacturers in trouble today. Employers are not the enemy. They are the hand that feeds workers. Yes, they are motivated to earn a profit, but that is also in the interest of the workers. If the company doesn't prosper, then they will either go bankrupt or be taken over by a competitor. Union contracts take away a companies cost-cutting ability and that is one of the reasons why General Telephone is gone. That is also why GM and Ford are struggling.



Also, blind loyalty to union-made or american-made products makes our country weaker, because it removes the motivation of companies to invest in new, innovative technologies and designs. Ford is a perfect example of this. They have some really bright folks working for them, but they are designing their best products overseas. The European Focus is better than our Focus, the Asian 4Trac is an awesome small pickup, and the Australian Fairlane is a much nicer car than our Ford 500.



Why can't Ford build cars that have the reliability and economy of a Mazda and the luxury/safety of a Volvo? They own the trademarks for these companies. Why can't some of that ingenuity find its way into Ford products sold in their home country? :unsure:

 

[Gavin Allan]

You are right on when you say that our jobs and our lifestyles are in peril. However, the solution isn't in "circling the wagons" and demanding higher wages and better working conditions. Look what the unions have done for pilots in the airline industry: Many pilots have had to take huge wage cuts just to keep their jobs despite their union.



The problem is that we have COMPETITION from lots of folks in other countries who are VERY HUNGRY for a higher standard of living. These folks are willing to work hard to learn everything they can, and they also are willing to bust their ***** for much lower wages than we are in order to take our jobs so they can have a better standard of living. Our task is to try to stay ahead of them in productivity and keep our production and distribution costs lower, and keep our quality higher--that is our only hope to keep our standard of living.



The US currently has a huge crisis in what our kids learn in school. Japan has mandatory 6-day a week school year-round. The US is near the bottom of academic and technical performance of most other developed countries- their students can whip ours into oblivion when it comes to Math, Science, and Communication skills. We have to somehow fix our schools and get our kids to learn. We have to keep our kids in school after high school and teach them advanced technical skills and/or advanced academics. There is a huge shortage of engineers and skilled workers in the US. Many US students graduate from high school without the ability to read, perform basic Math and Algebra, or communicate via speech or writing.



One other little problem we have in the US is our hugely greedy corporate executives that suck the profit and productivity out of the company. In other developed countries, the CEO may make 3-5 times what the skilled technician or assembly line worker earns. In the US, it is not unusual for the CEO to make 30 times what the front line worker earns. US systems are set up for very short-term rewards to CEOs, instead of encouraging them to plow the profits back into the company to keep it up to date and competitive. These profits should be used to upgrade the companies technology, facilities, and continually retrain workers. In other countries workers are considered to be assets to be developed; in the US workers are considered to be expenses to be minimized and eliminated.

 

[Gavin Allan]

BTW: Some US companies have gotten the message. Look at Caterpiller and John Deere. Their high-quality products are world leaders in their industry. Even China is hungry for Caterpiller and John Deere equipment because it is recognized as higher-quality and better engineered, better-supported than any other equipment from any other company or country.



We need to emmulate Caterpillar and John Deere. They are hugely successful.

 

[Bill Lukus]

Mike

You are correct, most people do not understand what union have done for EVERYONE in the country !! It is funny to now see white collar workers skirm when their jobs are also on the line.I watch how low and mid level (non-union ) salary employies are mistreated but must put up with it .They cry on my shoulder! My cousin is a doctor and she comes to me to ask about bargaining a contract with a hospital.

Most employers will pay you the least amount of money and benifits to get a job done. I make about 15% more than non-union shops in my area in a very safe enviroment. The supervisors and managers benifits are 20-35% better than other companies in the area. My employer also will sub-contracts out work and pay a preminum (over a union wage ) of 40-100% to get a job done and have us just watch them work.Corperate WASTE !The CEO of my employer just recieved a $80 million retirement package. During his 5 years as CEO our stock price fell 50 %



NelsonOKC

Note: Overseas and Austraila MOST worker are UNION !! Some goverment requirement them to be.

 

[Bill Lukus]

Gavin

Caterpillar is one of the first profitable companys that went after the UAW and shut done a 3000 worker plant after consessions were made to make them more profitable.They hired GOONS that had M-16's and video cameras to stand at the plant entrances.The wages were cut 40% and they were made to work weekends with out overtime pay,and also lost benifits. After a long strike and the workers taking the consessions, the work was moved out of the plant.

 

[TomT]

As a 20+ year union member I agree unions are necessary but that doesn't mean there are not some that have done more harm for both their workers and their companies then good. I look at unions like I look at our politicians. As they climb up the ladder from local government to state and federal government, they loose touch with the common man and only care about their own personal agendas. This unfortunately has happened with the UAW and several others. Because of the unions demand for increasingly high pay and benefits for non-skilled workers, plants are closing down and people are loosing their jobs. Unions first concerns should be the safety of it's workers and job stability.



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[Rodger Tellefson]

I am not against unions, but in some cases they have not changed with the times. Case in point: About 15 to 20 yrs ago a union went on strike against a local newspaper, so the newspaper just hired people that didn't have jobs and wanted to work. The union was on strike for many years and eventually faded away. I don't know what the answer is, but part of it is to have people who are homeless work in exchange for housing. The problem there is that a lot of them don't want to work because they can make more money panhandling. I never give any money to beggers any more since you don't know who is for real.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Unions can't help improperly run companies. Companies like Caterpiller and John Deere are leaders because they put out a quality product and stand behind it. And, when you do that, and you have a recognizable brand, you can charge a premium. These companies are successfully run, period...unions don't run companies.



Unions as a form of job protection will always in the end fail, and hurt everyone....and accellerate the demise of already hurting companies. World-class companies that make world-class products employ workers that typically don't get much value from unions. I find it to be no coincidence that it seems to be the industries in crisis and the failing companies that tend to provide the most "value" and "protection" for its members. I wonder why that is?



TJR

 

[EddieS'04]

All I will say is...

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[Richard L]

tracnblack,

I have to disagree. Companies like Honda and Toyota are building their vehicles in the USA with American workers. They are making good money, have good benefits, and appear to be quite happy. Honda and Toyota cannot stop their workiers from joining a union, but the workers appearantly don't feel it's necessary. It's interesting to note that Honda and Toyota are not closing down any US assembly plants, while GM & Ford are constantly announcing plant closings and layoffs.



I also disagree with your statment about white collor workers who think they can't be fired, etc. White collar workers cannot join a union because they are salaried employees and are deemed as part of management.



Unions have a bad reputation for corruption by gansters back in the 50's and 60's and there is still some corruption in certain segments of the country.



Unions did a fairly good job of increasing the safety of workers, but OSHA has taken over for better or worse.



I think the days of the labor unions are numbered. Most of the union jobs are unskilled labor positions that the union drives up the pay then goes on strike every few years for more money...one so you can get paid more, and they can extract more money in union dues.



...Rich

 

[Ron N]

American Federation of State, County,and Municiple Employees union. A part of the AFL-CIO, I have been a member for ten years. If it weren't for the union trying to get us better conditions, the texas dept of criminal justice would be the lowest paying prison system instead of 47th on the list. We would have lost alot of our benefits as well I think. When it comes to large employee sytems it is nice to have someone on your side. _Ron

 

[Tom Schindler]

money...one so you can get paid more, and they can extract more money in union dues.

That is not entirely true. My dues are a set amount and my pay has nothing to do with amount I pay in union dues.



My wages, on average, barely keep up with the rate of inflation, yet CEO's pay have continually risen out of this world. Read the newspaper in regards to CEO pay. It never ceases to amaze me that a CEO can be paid millions of dollars while they complain about the cost of health insurance. They are unable to pay out retirement benefits they promised to their employees while their compensation just keeps going up. I do not begrudge someone making lots of money, but you can never forget those that actually make the company money.

Companies like Honda and Toyota are building their vehicles in the USA with American workers. They are making good money, have good benefits, and appear to be quite happy. Honda and Toyota cannot stop their workiers from joining a union, but the workers appearantly don't feel it's necessary. It's interesting to note that Honda and Toyota are not closing down any US assembly plants, while GM & Ford are constantly announcing plant closings and layoffs.

Are the imports bringing jobs into the USA or are they shifting employment numbers from one person to another? Honda builds a plant and Ford closes one. Did Honda give someone a job or did they cause a job to be lost? Are they helping America move foreward or are they putting America into a hole from unemployment benefits? It isn't as black and white as the "union busters" think it is.

Unions did a fairly good job of increasing the safety of workers, but OSHA has taken over for better or worse.

Who caused the Occupational Health and Safety Act to come into effect?

I think the days of the labor unions are numbered.

They numbers will dwindle, but there will be a resurgence like there has never been before. Once unions are just abut gone, I predict many employers will stick the shaft, so to speak, into the rear ends of the employees and they will stand up for what is right. The only ones that can truly eliminate unions is the employers. You can't expect to be the CEO, make $20 million a year and expect your employees accept the fact that they will not get medical coverage, fair pay, and a pension package.



Japan has laws that govern the operation of business in Japan. Maximum CEO pay, requirements on vehicle size and fuel economy, etc. Toyota and Honda has the pressure of the Japanese government to build vehicles that get great gas mileage. In turn, Toyota and Honda get to sell them in the USA and people parise them for doing a good job. Ford and GM get fingers pointed at them for not following the market.



Don't agree? Why do those in Asia and Europe get electronics years before we get them in the USA. Why can VW sell millions of diesel vehicles in Europe yet it is a pain to sell a diesel vehicle in the USA. People will buy them, the problem is that not enough people will to offset the investment Ford and GM must go through to develop them for US sales. When I was in Europe 2001, Flat screen TV's were the norm. You could not find a CRT television anywhere for sale. Here it is in 2006, Best Buy still sells CRT TV's in the stores. Why is that? Any domestic manufacturer of electronics will not invest in a technology that hasn't proved itself in the USA. Meanwhile, the Japanese electronics has already poised itself to take the markey because they have the "newest technology" in the USA when it is really nothing but old technology that is new to us.



Our own federal government is responsible for many of the conditions of our businesses. The EPA causes many jobs to leave the country. Why invest all this money to comply with federal regulations when we can go to China and not have to deal with it? Factories in China an

 

[Bill Geiger 2]

You know. I don't know how this all started, but I have been dealing with the same issues as all of you above, in some form or another. I work for Procter & Gamble. I like my job. I get paid very well per hour in my area without a college degree. My plant is non union. We got a measley 2% cost of living increase last year. 1% lump sum and 1% in our hourly wage. We were told last year that our plants employees' salaries far surpass any other manufacturer in the area and that we"local plant" are striving to become average to the area. All of the local manufacturing jobs in the area that compared to P&G in employee wages have all shut down. They were all Union.



I have never worked for a union shop before. People I work with are adament that we need a union to survive. I'm not sure we do. But I'm not sure we don't either. I am 34 years old with a wife, two children, two cars, and two homes(1 is a rental) My non union job pays for all of this.



I don't know if this is a rant, question, or general statement about this post. However, MY views are, I get paid well, my job is relatively secure, If I wanted to be a CEO of say P&G I should have went to college. DO we really need a revolt to demand change? I don't know.



My job is, well, my job. IF I come across a better job I will take it. If that is more pay with same crappy schedule I'll weigh the benefits. If it is a new job, same pay better hours. Probably jump at the chance to get off of 12 hour rapid rotating shifts.



Just my thoughts

 

[Tom Schindler]

However, MY views are, I get paid well, my job is relatively secure, If I wanted to be a CEO of say P&G I should have went to college

.



If P&G decided to cut your pay to 6 bucks an hour, demand you to work 16 hrs a day and cut any health benefits, one of your choices would be to try to organize. P&G is making you happy and that is all it takes to keep you there. Treat you like crap and your have the right to fight back. You can run to another job or you can stand together and say, we are the ones that make you money. We don't demand the most money in the industry, but we expect to be paid fairly. Without that threat of a union, the employers can become tyrants.



There might be little to no crime in a neighborhood you live it, but you still want the police officers to watch the area. With the police officers around, the crooks stay away.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I think what Tracnutz was saying is that things aren't that bad at P&G, they treat there employees well, and still there are times when increases are low, but that's a fact of life. Organizing and forcing higher increases will never "send a message" to a poorly run company. If P&G's profits were higher, it's salary increases would have likely been higher. And, Caymen, you say that its the employees that make the money for a company, well if that's the case, then logic would dictate that its the employees that are to blame, at least partially, when a company doesn't make money, or at least not enough of it. Sure, companies are run at the top, but everyone has skin in the game and a voice. Employees shouldn't need to be lulled by a sense of fear as to what might happen in order to organize in order to force a company to do things they actually may or may not be able to do or willing to do. Good companies will always do what's right because content employees means great output and high profits. Poor companies exploit situations and they aren't around that long.



TJR

 

[Tom Schindler]

Organizing and forcing higher increases will never "send a message" to a poorly run company.

That is very true. A porely run company doesn't make the money it should.

And, Caymen, you say that its the employees that make the money for a company, well if that's the case, then logic would dictate that its the employees that are to blame, at least partially, when a company doesn't make money, or at least not enough of it.

That is not true. As the employee, I produce the end product that gets sold. If the product I am building is not something people want, It is not my fault. Now, if I am building the end product, but choose not to build it correctly, then yes I am to blame for the downfall of the company. Of course, every company has quality control to prevent that from happening, though, stuff still gets by.

Good companies will always do what's right because content employees means great output and high profits. Poor companies exploit situations and they aren't around that long.

We would hope that is the case, yet it isn't always.



A good person will never steal, but a bad person might. A police officer prevents the good guy from doing something bad and the bad guy...He just gets exposed for his true colors.





Tom

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Good guys don't steal, regardless of whether or not there are police that might catch them. People that require the police to be there to keep themselves from stealing are NOT the good guys.



And, yes, everyone in a company is to blame for a company's poor performance. Workers have a say, even without unions...they just do. You disagree, and I understand you have to because if you agreed it would mean the unions are more or less meaningless and that you have been programmed...a hard pill to swallow. It's much easier to think of the workers as the pawns that have to be protected and the executives as the ones calling the shot and who are in charge of winning or losing the game. In that model, it's the workers vs. the bosses with the unions on the worker's side. If you want to be an organization that gains and retains power, the first thing you have to do is further a divide and exploit that divide by creating fear, uncertainty and doubt.



The reality is that employees do have a voice. They can quit, they can refuse to work, they can use whatever voice they have. All of these factors count. Yes, some corporations are like giant ocean liners with little chance of those that are rowing the oars to affect the rudder...but it's not a slave ship. You can always stop rowing, get off the ship, or yell up to the captain's deck. If they don't listen, then the ship is probably headed for an iceberg anyway, so the problem solves itself.



TJR