blksn8k
Well-Known Member
With all the negative news lately regarding VW and "clean" diesel, was Ford right to go with their EcoBoost technology instead of diesel?
Was Ford Right After All?
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Dean Hedin
Active Member
I think it's more about the fact that there is a major infrastructure for the production of gasoline that is well well established. One way to derive better efficiency from gasoline is through direct injection, which many of the big players did.
Diesel is still very efficient. Let's not forget that there are others producing diesel engines that are not violating emissions regulations.
We still don't know all the info behind what VW did and for what reasons. Although I'm sure it will boil down $$.
They certainly had the capability to meet emissions when the smog gear was hooked up, but perhaps this could not be sustained in the long run? Was it just to get a few more MPG?
Here's the kicker.. Let say you have one of these effected vehicles. Now you get a call from the dealer saying you have to bring in your car in to get "fixed". The "fix" implies either - You are are going to get less mpg OR your emissions equipment is not going to last as long OR BOTH.
To which my response is - No thanks she is running just fine! I will skip the "fix".
The fact of the matter is that these VW diesels make up less than 1% of the cars out there and the higher NOx emissions they are producing does not really have an impact here in the US. Although that may not be the case in Europe.
Diesel is still very efficient. Let's not forget that there are others producing diesel engines that are not violating emissions regulations.
We still don't know all the info behind what VW did and for what reasons. Although I'm sure it will boil down $$.
They certainly had the capability to meet emissions when the smog gear was hooked up, but perhaps this could not be sustained in the long run? Was it just to get a few more MPG?
Here's the kicker.. Let say you have one of these effected vehicles. Now you get a call from the dealer saying you have to bring in your car in to get "fixed". The "fix" implies either - You are are going to get less mpg OR your emissions equipment is not going to last as long OR BOTH.
To which my response is - No thanks she is running just fine! I will skip the "fix".
The fact of the matter is that these VW diesels make up less than 1% of the cars out there and the higher NOx emissions they are producing does not really have an impact here in the US. Although that may not be the case in Europe.
A1cntrler
Well-Known Member
The problem with that is that here in California, if there is an outstanding recall or even a TSB you're not able to renew your registration. I bet a few other states where emissions area big deal employ the same rule.
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
My next door neighbor has a Jetta diesel, I was talking to him today about it and he's pissed as hell. As mentioned, when he gets it fixed it will get less mpg. Today's paper says they cheated on the European tests too.
Hitler is not happy about it. ---V
Hitler is not happy about it. ---V
Dean Hedin
Active Member
The fact of the matter is the consumers in the US who purchased the VW diesels more than offset the extra NOx they produced by reducing their overall CO2 emissions.
I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in funding the EPA to the tune of $38,000 for every TDI that Volkswagen sold.
VW is being punished way too harshly for this.
I don't know about you, but I'm not interested in funding the EPA to the tune of $38,000 for every TDI that Volkswagen sold.
VW is being punished way too harshly for this.
Mark K 2
Well-Known Member
It's not so much that their engines are dirty, it's that they knowingly and willfully designed and implemented a program to hide it. That's why the fine is so high.
Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
The REAL PROBLEM is that the certification test does not accurately reproduce normal driving conditions. I don't fault VW for optimizing the vehicle to for the test-- I bet all auto makers do that for crash certifications, mileage certifications, etc. too.
Dean Hedin
Active Member
Here you go...
US cars are more dangerous than their European counterparts...and THEY TRIED TO HIDE IT.
Naughty naughty. We'll have to fine them $38k a car, cause people are dying.
Just like folks are dying from the little extra NOx the VW diesels are making.
Let just fine them all... How else will we pay for all these gov't bureaucrats?
US cars are more dangerous than their European counterparts...and THEY TRIED TO HIDE IT.
Naughty naughty. We'll have to fine them $38k a car, cause people are dying.
Just like folks are dying from the little extra NOx the VW diesels are making.
Let just fine them all... How else will we pay for all these gov't bureaucrats?
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
More recent news reports are that VW cheated on European emissions tests too. Standards are different there because they value fuel economy over emissions but still....
This is not the first diesel powered VW...they made diesel VW Rabbits back about 30 years ago. And VW is not the only passenger car currently made that uses diesel engines. Diesel powered passenger cars are very popular in Europe.
I think Americans do not care for diesel powered passenger cars stems from the GM/Oldsmobile fiasco 30 years ago when GM took a conventional gasoline 350 CID engine block and converted it to a diesel and started selling them in some models of Oldsmobile. Within a few years owners of those Oldsmobiles where a very angry bunch when their cars broke down and repairs to the diesel engine were so expensive...most found it cheaper to replace the engine with a standard gasoline engine.
Previous attempts to convert a gasoline engine to operate as a diesel have been miserable failures. The problem is always that the engine block of a diesel must be much stronger than gasoline engine block and needs to be designed from the beginning to be a diesel engine.
Ford lives and dies by their own decisions, and so far they seem to be doing very well without a diesel powered passenger car.
...Rich
I think Americans do not care for diesel powered passenger cars stems from the GM/Oldsmobile fiasco 30 years ago when GM took a conventional gasoline 350 CID engine block and converted it to a diesel and started selling them in some models of Oldsmobile. Within a few years owners of those Oldsmobiles where a very angry bunch when their cars broke down and repairs to the diesel engine were so expensive...most found it cheaper to replace the engine with a standard gasoline engine.
Previous attempts to convert a gasoline engine to operate as a diesel have been miserable failures. The problem is always that the engine block of a diesel must be much stronger than gasoline engine block and needs to be designed from the beginning to be a diesel engine.
Ford lives and dies by their own decisions, and so far they seem to be doing very well without a diesel powered passenger car.
...Rich
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