Your hawt but really dumb!

[yankeegator]

1/5 of Americans can't find the U.S. on a world map...and 5/4 of them have trouble with fractions...

 

[Bill V]

Nelson, have you or your daughter seen any of the material that will be covered in her classes? Do you or she think she'll have any difficulty in the classes?



And prior to receiving the grade, how did she think she had done in that entrance exam? If she was confident she did well, and then got a 25%, it may be worth investigating the accuracy of the grade. Especially if it was an electronically graded exam, such an extreme discrepancy between expected and actual results seems most likely to be a technical error.

 

[Wes Davis]

You know even after all of this she still placed 4th in the competition!!! ToddZ is correct in that its all looks and popularity.

 

[Nelson Atwell]

The test was hand graded. My daughter knew she didn't do well. The teacher gave her a couple of questions, since the symbol used for division is not the same here as used in the US.



We've seen the syllabus for the new class. Part of the problem is that they don't seperate Algebra, Geometry, Trigonometry and Calculus into seperate courses. They are all lumped into a single course, called "Math".

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

I don't believe that teachers are under paid or overworked. I think society puts too much emphasis on sports, "music" (or at least the noise comming out of the radio), money etc.



When school districts are too quick to ban Tag, they have priorities out of kilter. Instead of banning tag, and worrying about what being chased will do to a 1st grader's ego, concentrate on getting them to pass a simple stanadardized test.



I don't think NCLB is the solution, but it brought a few good points to the table. Something else that would do wonders for the educational system is vouchers. We are constantly dropping millions of dollars into school systems to produce uneducated and impoverished people. Give parents a choice.



Schools are for education, not Liberal Training Grounds. Schools are for Reading, Writing and Math, not a playground for Social Experimentation. Schools are for preparing students for life and the riggors there of, not for codling twits and their twit parents.



Personally, if my kid comes home and says "Daddy, they are chasing me at school!". My first question is "Why?". If she says "we were playing TAG" my responce will be "it's part of the game. Get over it."



/soapbox

 

[Gavin Allan]

Public Worried That Narrowed Curriculum Will Leave Children Behind

BLOOMINGTON, IN — Americans worry the No Child Left Behind (NCLB) Act is pushing art, science, health,

and social studies out of the classroom. According to this year’s PDK/Gallup Poll of the Public’s Attitudes Toward

the Public Schools, one in two Americans believe that NCLB is limiting what children are taught, and a large majority

of Americans believe that their schools must do more to prepare young people to succeed in our increasingly

interconnected world.

“Although 67% of parents give the school their oldest child attends an A or a B, a very high percentage, both

parents and the public have sent a clear message that we need to make sure students are ready to compete,” said

William J. Bushaw, executive director of PDK International, a worldwide association of education professionals.

“The reauthorization of NCLB provides an opportunity for our nation’s policy makers to improve how we measure

learning and how we support our most vulnerable students. There couldn’t be a more critical time to do this than

now.”

Five years ago, NCLB was signed into law to hold schools more accountable for student achievement. Congress

is scheduled to reauthorize the law this year, and many expect the debate to be contentious. As the only source for

yearly data on the public’s views on NCLB, the PDK/Gallup Poll provides critical information for this debate.

Annual standardized testing is a cornerstone of NCLB, and there is solid evidence that Americans are increasingly

rejecting the use of standardized tests. When asked about the amount of testing in the schools, 43% of the public

believe that there is too much, which is a 12 percentage point increase since 2002. Parents are even more concerned,

with 52% saying there is too much testing, a 20 percentage point increase since 2002.

“The public’s concern over standardized testing is justified,” said Bushaw. “Holding schools accountable based

on how students perform on a single test given on a single day is wrong. It's pushing important subjects out of the

curriculum, and Americans are concerned.”

Americans’ concerns about the breadth of the curriculum are also evident in their support for studying international

cultures and foreign languages. Eight in 10 Americans believe that all children in the U.S. should learn a second

language in addition to English, and 7 in 10 want foreign language instruction to start in elementary school.

“The public is clearly concerned that NCLB is narrowing the school curriculum right when our students will need

more knowledge and skills to compete in the global marketplace,” said Lowell Rose, co-author with Alec Gallup

of this year's PDK/Gallup poll.

Other findings include that the public overwhelmingly supports having teachers spend some part of their workday

learning how to help their students achieve at higher levels; that the biggest problem facing the public schools is lack

of financial support; that public opinion is becoming more favorable toward charter schools; and that Americans are

evenly split on whether states should establish their own curriculum standards or whether our nation should have a

single set of national standards.

PDK International is a leading association of education professionals that has been advocating for high-quality

education for all since 1906. Currently, PDK has more than 40,000 members, including university faculty and

administrators, school superintendents, principals, and teachers. For more information on PDK and its programs,

visit www.pdkintl.org.

 

[Gavin Allan]

RSHek, I agree 100% with everything you said, except about the vouchers. Running away from public education is not the answer. That will only further the gap between haves and have nots. We need to FIX public education to strengthen our entire country. All kids need to have a good education. All kids need skills to perform needed jobs. All kids need to be prepared to go to college if they wish. All kids need to perform some sort of national service to help them mature and value our country.



You did give some excellent examples of reasons why it isn't working now.

 

[Gavin Allan]

More interesting reading hot off the press:



-- COMPARATIVE INDICATORS OF EDUCATION IN THE UNITED STATES AND OTHER G-8 COUNTRIES







A new report from the National Center for Education Statistics describes how the education system in the United States compares with education systems in the other G-8 countries. The G-8 countries -- Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom, and the United States -- are among the world's most economically developed countries. "Comparative Indicators of Education in the United States and Other G-8 Countries: 2006" organizes twenty indicators in five sections: (1) population and school enrollment, (2) academic performance, (3) context for learning, (4) expenditure for education, and (5) education returns such as educational attainment and income. Among the findings:







* Among the G-8 countries, the United States had the most foreign students (in absolute numbers) enrolled in higher education.



* On the TIMSS 2003 fourth-grade assessment, higher percentages of students in Japan than in the other G-8 countries reached each established international benchmark in mathematics.



* On the PISA 2003 assessment, about one-quarter of 15-year old students in the United States scored at or below the lowest proficiency level on the combined mathematics literacy scale, a higher proportion of students than in Germany, France, Japan, and Canada.

* Fifteen-year-old students in the United States generally scored lower, on average, than their peers in the same four G-8 countries on each of the four mathematics literacy subscales: space and shape, change and relationships, quantity, and uncertainty.



* In 2004, all or almost all 3- and 4-year-old children were enrolled in preprimary or primary education in France and Italy. In the other G-8 countries, at least three-quarters of 3- and 4-year-olds were enrolled in preprimary or primary education, with the exception of the United States, with 53 percent. Compulsory education, on average, ends at age 18 in Germany; age 17 in the United States; age 16 in Canada, France, and the United Kingdom; and age 15 in Italy, Japan, and the Russian Federation.



* Although U.S. students were generally at an advantage in terms of socioeconomic status (SES) compared to their G-8 peers, low-SES 15-year-old students in the United States were outperformed by their peers in Germany, France, Japan, and Canada in mathematics Literacy.

 

[Bill V]

Anyone who thinks that the concept of "No Child Left Behind" works clearly has never supervised a group of children on a field trip. Such a situation quickly demonstrates that the only way to prevent the slow kids from "falling behind" is to make sure that no one goes any faster than them. The kids that are fully capable of going at a faster pace aren't allowed to do so, just to make sure that their "peers" (and I use that term very loosely here) don't fall behind them. This strategy makes perfect sense in a field trip, where child safety is the number one objective. But in a classroom situation, it just forces our best and brightest to stagnate.



It's time to change the name of the "No Child Left Behind" program to something far more accurate: "No Child Gets Ahead".

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Bill V, though I understand your analogy, I think you should recognize that the "No Child Left Behind" regulations actually call for increasing standardized test scores, especially for those schools that have high rates of children doing poorly.



I don't see how raising the bar across the board can be viewed as dumbing everyone down, which appears to be what you are describing.



TJR

 

[Kevin Palmer]

Nelson, I think the tutor thing is a smart way to go.



Why? Well, it will help her to better understand the local requirements as compared to how things are done in the states and what not.



Also, it should help her over the "hump" if she does need a little boost. And, it will not hurt her even if you find that she does not need the tutoring...

 

[Bill V]

TJR, raising the bar in the way NCGA (I've already renamed it, per my previous suggestion )does indeed cause "dumbing everyone down", to use your term.



When the schools are required to make sure that everyone meets some minimum standard or face significant sanctions, all efforts in that school are spent on making sure that all the kids are able to meet that minimum. Those students who are able to exceed that minimum with ease are basically ignored, as any time spent with them is time not spent with kids at risk of missing that standard, which would make the school look bad. The NCGA format is more interested in making sure that none of the kids fail than making sure that some of the kids exceed the middle ground.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

BillV, yet the bar is still being raised, that's the point. You made it sound much more pessimistic, as if everyone is going to get lowered to the current level of under-achievement (e.g. slowing down everyone to go no faster than the slowest kid in the field trip), which simply isn't a 100% accurate analogy.



I'm all for a NCLB program that raises the standards and holds teachers and schools accountable. If there is a true raising of the bar, and bad teachers and schools have to get better, than that is better than the current system.



But then again, I live where there is a good school system.



I think your criticism is more towards standardized testing, and the general educational system in America as a whole, and less a knock on NCLB. Throughout it's history, the US eductational system has done very little cater to those students who excel. Most of my kids continue to be bored in school. Sure, there are "gifted" programs, etc, but in many schools those kids have the same stigma as homeschooled kids (they are considered geeks, dweebs, out of touch, etc). Sure, society creates the stigma, but our education system does little to counter them.



TJR

 

[Gavin Allan]

That is the challenge: Teach all kids to their maximum achievement level so that all kids can be all they can be. It is hard work and takes a skillful teacher to teach kids of different abilites and learning styles in the same class, but it can be done. The problem is we have a bunch of lazy and/or ill-prepared teachers out there who cannot do this. Of course, we also have kids with multiple problems, ineffective administrators, facilities issues, etc.



It would help to get started if every student had an individualized education plan, developed by the student, the teacher, and the parents.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Gavin said:

The problem is we have a bunch of lazy and/or ill-prepared teachers out there who cannot do this.

I have to TOTALLY disagree. There is no ONE problem, as the words "The problem..." would imply.



A much bigger problem than the one you describe (which I think is a minority), IMHO, is that many parents simply have given up on being parents (or won't assume the responsibility). They have given up on teaching their children at a young age what is right, what is wrong; how to respect others, and what is expected of them in life.



If parents don't do that, then kids go into school with no sense of why they are their, and what their responsibility is.



TJR

 

[Bill V]

Sure, there are "gifted" programs, etc,....

Unfortunately this isn't necessarily true. Many school districts lack any such program at all. Some gifted programs have been reduced or eliminated, simply to free up the funds for "Special Ed" and other such programs simply to get everyone up to NCGA standards. NCGA regulations, in far too many cases, is forcing schools to spend all their time making sure that all their students will someday have the skills to work the drive thru at Wendy's, rather than making sure that some of their students will someday find the cure for cancer.

If there is a true raising of the bar, and bad teachers and schools have to get better, than that is better than the current system.

That would be true, if they were using a reasonable manner to determine which teachers and schools are bad. Looking at what percentage of students are meeting some minimum standards might be part of that, but it's not the be-all-end-all that NCGA sees it as. As you point out, in a neighborhood where parents aren't being parents, kids will fail such a test, despite the best efforts of the school and teachers, and at no fault at all of the school and teachers.



You're right when you say that there is "no one problem"--but there is definitely a "number one problem", and that problem has nothing to do with the schools or the teachers. They're just being used by NCGA as the scapegoats. In most of these schools that NCGA has labeled as deficient, if most of the kids in the schools had even an iota of decent parenting, the school and teachers would be considered top-notch by NCGA. But instead, the teachers are having to do both the teaching and parenting, and are forced to do both with an objective of meeting the NCGA minimum requirements, instead of acting for the good of the individual students.

 

[TomT]

How true. Teachers can only do so much. The "system" prevents schools from really disciplining kids anymore and the result is the kids run the class, not the teachers. This is not a good environment for learning.

It all starts with the parents. Parents must teach the importance of an education to their kids. If the kids don't care about an education then they are not going to get one. (Unfortunately this is really prevalent in most black schools). Like the old saying goes: You can lead a horse to water.............

 

[Bill V]

How about using the NCGA standards on parents instead of on schools and teachers? If your child does poorly on the tests, they need to show improvement on the next one. If they don't, you will get extra instruction on how to be a better parent. Continued poor performance will result in your child-rearing being shut down. If you're in this situation, and you feel you're doing a good job as a parent, but the school your child attends is letting them down, it's your responsibility to get involved in the school and in your child's education to make the improvements happen, or to provide a better learning environment--be it a different school, home schooling, etc.



If NCLB (and if this was to happen, it truly would be NCLB, not NCGA) were allowed to have as much enforcement teeth in dealing with poor quality parents as it does with what it perceives to be poor quality teachers/schools, it might actually have a chance of succeeding. But as it is now, it's impossible.

 

[Ryan Schaecher]

I went to a private school. I went to a public school. I transfered between the two half way through 4th grade. Where I was at in the private school is exactly where I was at in the public school AT THE END OF THE YEAR. I wasted 1 full semester. We had THE EXACT SAME TEXTBOOKS. There is no question in my mind that private schools ARE SIGNIFICANTLY better than even good public schools. I have never seen a GREAT public school so I can't say how they compare. The public school I went to was in the Top 5% in Kommiefornia.



Vouchers are the way to go. It allows the 'have-nots' tp "have" what the "haves" have... have I got your attention?



The "haves" can afford to "pay" for private school should they so choose. The "have-nots" can't "pay". With vouchers, the "have-nots" can now "pay" for private school.



The answer to public education is not throwing more and more and more money into the black hole that is public education. It's tossing out the bad teachers. It's tossing out or at least curtailing the power of the NEA and Teacher's Unions. It's financial incentives for the teachers that do well.



Let's make the schools EARN their money. You have to do it by working. What's so damn wrong with making the schools do the same?



At my public school, I didn't even try and I got near straight-A's. That was in the "gifted" programs. I wasn't allowed to work ahead. I wasn't allowed to get any further than anyone else. There were several times that I was penalized for doing assignements a week or more in advance. We had to cater to the lowest common denominator (not me). But when I got to college, I realized that what I had was NOTHING. I had no study skills. I had little to none in the way of investigating answers outside of class. I was not a joke but I went from being in the top 5% to being in the bottom 5%.



I am about 75% sure that we will at least explore Home-Schooling our kids. My wife and I are both engineers. My wife stays at home. There's no question that she can be much more effective than many public education teachers.



Public Education.... been there, done that, bought the t-shirt. Not impressed.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Here is an interesting story.



I am currently job hunting. My current employer is under-valuing me, and they frankly leave a lot to be desired for many reasons.



As such, I am attending job interviews. I have had a couple of offers...none extremely better than my current job, but even a lateral move might not be so bad.



Anyway, I said casually at the dinner table that if my current company folded we might find ourselves living outside in a cardboard box. My 6 year old daughter told her friends that. Of course, I was just kidding when I said it. But she clearly was a little concerned about it.



So, I assured my daughter that isn't going to happen. Not because it CAN'T happen, but because I have worked hard and have options and will continue to have options so that it WON'T happen.



I didn't talk about welfare...I didn't talk about unemployment insurance...I simply explained that it's "MY JOB" to make sure that doesn't happen.



My daughter probably got more "education" out of that little slip of my tongue than she will all this year in 1st grade.



TJR