Senior Pete
Member
Does anyone know more about Ziebart? Is it really worth the money? Dealers sure push the option.
Ziebart???
- Thread starter Senior Pete
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I don't know about Ford vehicles and never really cared, but a guy at work showed me the paperwork on his GM truck that said rust proofing your vehicle will void the manufacturers corrosion warranty.
Tom
Tom
Scott Tanner
Well-Known Member
i had my 02 done, geez, they even did the plastic bed!!.. i bought mine w/o the warranty, which saves $200. the warranty is usless if you try and collect. they will find some reason that you voided it. they require yearly touch ups. if you do get it, tell them that you will remove door panels etc... to check if they did a good job. i've seen many half a$$ed attempts at rustproofing... up in the salt belt where i am, it won't stop the rust anyway, just give you 2-3 more years....
Johnny O
Well-Known Member
It's no doubt better than the factory protection. Dealers push it because they get a lot of markup on rustproofing. All depends on how long you plan to keep it. I got mine just undercoated and I talked them into throwing that in for free.
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Keep your vehicle clean, Touch up paint scratches, Don't let stuff cake on it, and wax 2 times a year min. You will be very happy..
Todd Z
Todd Z
William Washington
Active Member
Waste of money. Voids you warrantee. Actually may do more harm than good (moisture can get traqpped behind the coating doing hidden damage).
Scott Tanner
Well-Known Member
don't confuse undercoating w/ rustproofing.. undercoat protects from stuff flyuing off of the wheels... the rustproofing, from ziebart, is a tan, waxy substance that they spray in and around everything to get into the seams...
The metal used in all modern vehicles has been treated with numerous rust and corrosion inhibitors that offer adequate protection against body rust through. Most manufactuers will warranty the vehicles from rust through from 3 to 5 years.
Ziebart only puts on a sticky oily coating in places that sould not have that mess on them. A good example is the doors. They will usually spray the stuff up through the drain holes into the hollow door cavity. Sometimes they will even drill holes in the ends of the door or door pillars to be able to access behind panels without removing interior panels like door panels etc. When they do it that way (which they all do) you get that mess all over the window regulator, electric motors and door lock parts, etc. That's why some manufacturers will not honor the warranty when parts are coated with that oily mess.
I would not recommend to anyone to use undercoating or Ziebart treatment to prevent rust. If you want added rust protection, get one of those electrostatic units that use galvanic action along with a sacrfical metal plate that can be replaced when it gets eaten up. These devices require a small battery current and they use electro-plating principles. Rain, Snow, and salt water act as an electrolite but the sacrificial zinc plate is eaten away rather than the steel in your vehicle. They are the only thing proven to work.
...Rich
Ziebart only puts on a sticky oily coating in places that sould not have that mess on them. A good example is the doors. They will usually spray the stuff up through the drain holes into the hollow door cavity. Sometimes they will even drill holes in the ends of the door or door pillars to be able to access behind panels without removing interior panels like door panels etc. When they do it that way (which they all do) you get that mess all over the window regulator, electric motors and door lock parts, etc. That's why some manufacturers will not honor the warranty when parts are coated with that oily mess.
I would not recommend to anyone to use undercoating or Ziebart treatment to prevent rust. If you want added rust protection, get one of those electrostatic units that use galvanic action along with a sacrfical metal plate that can be replaced when it gets eaten up. These devices require a small battery current and they use electro-plating principles. Rain, Snow, and salt water act as an electrolite but the sacrificial zinc plate is eaten away rather than the steel in your vehicle. They are the only thing proven to work.
...Rich
Michael Cacioppo
Well-Known Member
RichardL, that zinc setup works well on metal boats but I/m not sure that it is very effective on a Truck frame. I believe that aluminum strips are used and an applied voltage of about 45 Volts is used. But this is not real practical on a truck.
MikeC,
You may be right that they us Aluminum on cars and zinc on boats. The boat system works better because they are in water all/most of the time where the electrostatic takes place.
However the car systems work nearly as good since it uses the rust producing water as an electrolite just like the the boats do. The formation of rust occures with the presence of water. If there is not water, there is no eletrolytic action, but there is also no rust forming.
As for the voltage required. I don't know. All the vehcile units I am aware of have small control modules that include some electronic circuitry and the two electrodes are mounted on opposite corners of the vehicle. On a truck like the ST it would be mounted to the frame, and on the body for Unibody vehicles. I don't know why you think they would not be effective or practical on a truck frame??
You may be right that they us Aluminum on cars and zinc on boats. The boat system works better because they are in water all/most of the time where the electrostatic takes place.
However the car systems work nearly as good since it uses the rust producing water as an electrolite just like the the boats do. The formation of rust occures with the presence of water. If there is not water, there is no eletrolytic action, but there is also no rust forming.
As for the voltage required. I don't know. All the vehcile units I am aware of have small control modules that include some electronic circuitry and the two electrodes are mounted on opposite corners of the vehicle. On a truck like the ST it would be mounted to the frame, and on the body for Unibody vehicles. I don't know why you think they would not be effective or practical on a truck frame??
Michael Cacioppo
Well-Known Member
My feeling is that since the frame has several different potentials among other metal parts, as can be verified by placing a voltmeter from various metal parts back to the negative post of the battery, the slight potential difference that that the sacrificial anode uses may be obscured by the higher potential elsewhere on the frame/body parts. I have no definitive documentation on this one way or r the other. Unlike a hull which is contuously conductive between plates with a large contact area, a car has less than optimum paths to each metal component. Sometimes a small rusty screw is the only conductive path.
Senior Pete
Member
Thanks for all the comments. I am a Navy Electrician of 18 years and understand sacrificial anodes.
I ordered my 07 ST last week from Exchange New Car Sales and the informed me that the Ziebart undercoating is not available at my delivery location. I payed for the option, but am thinking I will cancel it. I am moving to North Chicago soon after delivery in Oregon and am concerned about salting of the roads in North Chicago. I am not from an area that snows much, so I really don't know much. Thanks for the help.
Eric
I ordered my 07 ST last week from Exchange New Car Sales and the informed me that the Ziebart undercoating is not available at my delivery location. I payed for the option, but am thinking I will cancel it. I am moving to North Chicago soon after delivery in Oregon and am concerned about salting of the roads in North Chicago. I am not from an area that snows much, so I really don't know much. Thanks for the help.
Eric
Senior Pete
Member
I don't understand how it could void the warranty for rust protection. The Military new car sales program people are direct sales people for Ford Motors. If they are offering the Ziebart, and it's only applied by a Ford Dealer, could that affect the warranty?
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Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
I remember Consumer Reports doing a study on this about 15 years ago. They found that Ziebart-type treatments actually promoted corrosion, by blocking factory drainage holes and by exposing the metal in areas that were drilled to allow treatment.
I spoke to AAFES Military Cars Sales personnel in Korea and the Azores. Believe it or not, they are the only folks I have met that are even less informed than Ford Sales personnel. One of the guys in the Azores was a friend of mine. He had never even owned a car, because he had always driven motorcycles. He just took the job at Military Car Sales to keep busy (he was a dependent husband, and his wife was the one in the military).
I spoke to AAFES Military Cars Sales personnel in Korea and the Azores. Believe it or not, they are the only folks I have met that are even less informed than Ford Sales personnel. One of the guys in the Azores was a friend of mine. He had never even owned a car, because he had always driven motorcycles. He just took the job at Military Car Sales to keep busy (he was a dependent husband, and his wife was the one in the military).
Senior Pete
Member
Actually, the guy I ordered my ST from was really a Jack Ass (Japan). If I hadn't known exactly what I wanted, he wouldn't have been able to help much. So, I'm sure you are right on the mark. I got a really good price and fully loaded the limited. The only problem I'm having so far is no "instant gratification." I have to wail until Late June to even see my ST.
MikeIP,
The fact that the dealer will sell you something that may void your warranty is not uncommon. Ford, like other manufactures sell High Performance or Speed equipment that simply bolts on the car, but that does not mean that Ford will honor the new vehicle warranty if it was modified with speed equipment. And they sure aren't going to warranty what Ziebart does. The problem is that it goes onto parts like motors and widow regulators and can cause the parts to fail. Why should Ford pay to replace parts that were ruined by the Ziebart treatment.
...Rich
The fact that the dealer will sell you something that may void your warranty is not uncommon. Ford, like other manufactures sell High Performance or Speed equipment that simply bolts on the car, but that does not mean that Ford will honor the new vehicle warranty if it was modified with speed equipment. And they sure aren't going to warranty what Ziebart does. The problem is that it goes onto parts like motors and widow regulators and can cause the parts to fail. Why should Ford pay to replace parts that were ruined by the Ziebart treatment.
...Rich
