2007 Trac and no LSD.

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Tom Schindler

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I got to thinking...



Could the reason Ford not offering a LSD on the new Trac have anything to do with the Stability control system the Trac is supposed to have? How about a traction control system?



many of those systems rely on the brakes to adjust torque to wheels to prevent rollovers and assist traction.



Would a LSD interfere with the operation of those systems?



Using logic, I think that is the reason why there is no LSD offered.



Your thoughts?





Tom
 
It is possible the reason why, but If the LS clutching loading was designed for the stability control, I think it could work...GM went to electronic lockers on the H3 to go with there stability control. Why cant Ford do the same ???:unsure:
 
Honestly, IMO, it comes down to cost.



GM can charge a premimum price for a Hummer simply because it is a Hummer. People will pay the premium price for those options. The Sport Trac on the other hand is, simply put, a Ford.



The Hummer carries a status symbol the Explorer will never have. I think GM is killing the originality of the Hummer with the H2 and H3. Neither of them are Hummers, IMO.



There is only one Hummer...The H1. The others are poseurs. People will pay out the nose for a modified Colorado, complete with the I5 engine. I honestly think Ford would have a hard time selling a Trac that costs in excess of $40,000 unless it is the best of the best in something.





Tom
 
Caymen you are correct !The new traction control uses your brakes and not clutches to control wheel spin. Ford used this on their RWD cars in the late 1990's.
 
I thought the new ST was going to have All-Wheel Drive. In that case, wouldn't all wheels be continuously monitored and the torque to each wheel be adjusted automatically for the conditions? If that is the case, then a limited slip differential would defeat the purpose of All-Wheel Drive.
 
Is there any way NOT to get the stability control, or is this not an option?...



That right there would stop me from buying one dead in my tracks!!!!!

Todd Z
 
I thought the new ST was going to have All-Wheel Drive. In that case, wouldn't all wheels be continuously monitored and the torque to each wheel be adjusted automatically for the conditions? If that is the case, then a limited slip differential would defeat the purpose of All-Wheel Drive.



Nelson, according to the 07 ST PowerPoint presentation in the "Projects" section of this site, it's 4WD, not AWD.



New Control Trac 4 Wheel Drive System including Electronic Logic Automatic Torque Transfer and a 2 Speed Transfer Case with locking center differential
 
Is there any way NOT to get the stability control, or is this not an option?...



That right there would stop me from buying one dead in my tracks!!!!!



Welcome to the dumbifing of America. Personally, I think ABS, Air Bags, stability control, etc just make the drivers dumber and less connected to the road more and more. If the road is slippery, logic tells you to not floor the brakes. Feather, or pump as needed, your brakes to stop. Heading for an accident, you better have fastened your seatbelt. Looks like you are going to roll your vehicle, you should have been driving slower and don't forget your seatbelt.



All those safety items do is make our vehicles cost more and give them more things to break down. it raises our insurance rates because when we do wreck them, those extra goodies cost more the rebuild.



Ever seen the price of 2 airbags? Now imagine adding side airbags too.



It is obscene.





Tom
 
Tom,

Most electronic traction controls and stability controls work off the ABS system. GM has been doing that for over 10 years. My 1997 Grand Prix had a traction control system that was triggered by the wheel speed sensors and activated the ABS brakes for that wheel until traction was regained. It worked very well.



GM also added a "Low Tire pressure" capability by again using the wheel speed sensors to determine if a wheel/tire was turning slower than the other tires and used a dash light to identify the tire that was low on air pressure. It took about 10 miles before it had enough data to determine that a tire was low, but it worked great! The odd thing was that it could not recognize an immediate flat tire or blowout unless you drove for about 10 miles ??



For a stability control to work with an LSD, it would require some electronic control of the LSD clutches. So I suspect that Ford's stability control for the Explorer and Sport Trac is totally integrated into the existing ABS system using additional sensors.



...Rich
 
RichardL,



I know a thing or two about automobiles, no need to explain to me about how the system works when I already know it.



Notice my statement I made on my original post.



many of those systems rely on the brakes to adjust torque to wheels to prevent rollovers and assist traction.



Having a LSD would interfere with those brakes modulating the torque.



Has anyone noticed that Sport Trac has a 3 channel ABS system. The new one will have a 4 channel system. The two rear wheels are modulated by one chanel.





Tom
 
Caymen,

You may "know a thing or two about automobiles", but I have to disagree with your assessmant of the place of technology in these automobiles. Those airbags may be expensive, but their cheap compared to the cost of fixing your body. Pick your poison, car insurance or medical insurance. Personally I would rather spend money on the car rather than repairing my body. I really hope the person behind me (or my wife, daughter, etc) in a panic stop has ABS because 99.99% of drivers in a panic situation are better served by having ABS. Stability control may take the driver out of the equation to some extent, but the reason for that is it can do it better than the driver, period. There is a reason most racing series have outlawed traction control, stability control, etc, and that is because by taking the driver somewhat out of the loop you can go faster with all other things (driver skill) being unchanged. Why do fighters predominantly use digital flight controls? The computer can do it better than the pilot. Anyway, the couple of cars I've had with stability control (Mini Cooper S and G35 SC) all allow you to turn it off if you so choose. All these things don't make drivers dumber, it just hides their lack of skill to some degree and helps to protect us from them. As for Ford, how many millions are they paying out to drivers with marginal skills as a result of Explorer rollovers? If you were in Ford's shoes, wouldn't putting all that on seem like a good idea?
 
PRM,



I agree. I do think I should have a choicer. If I don't want stability control, I shouldn't have to take it because someone thinks I need it.



BTW, did you know Airbags have not saved as many lives as seat belts do. The amount of lives airbags have saved has been overshadowed by the additional injuries it has caused. Broken noses and blindness, to name a few.



Same goes with ABS. It should be my choice.





Tom
 
BTW, did you know Airbags have not saved as many lives as seat belts do. The amount of lives airbags have saved has been overshadowed by the additional injuries it has caused. Broken noses and blindness, to name a few.



That's because many people think they don't need seatbelts if they have airbags, so they don't wear them.



The auto industry had advanced the airbag technology over the last several years to help reduce related injuries. Most new vehicles are equipped with a weight sensor in the front seats that adjusts the force with which the airbag deploys, dependent on the weigh of the person in that seat. And if there's someone in the front passenger seat under a predetermined weight, the airbag is disabled altogether.
 
That's because many people think they don't need seatbelts if they have airbags, so they don't wear them.



That is because people are getting stupidified by safety devices.





Tom
 
Tom,

If you know a thing or two about automobiles, why did you ask the question?? Yes, you indicated that these systems use the brakes, but more specifically they use the brains of the ABS system.



Actually, I had intended to answer the question for anyone else who may not know why the brakes would be involved with a traction control or stability system, Or even a low-tire detection system.



...Rich
 
well, no one answered my question, so there !!...:p

Todd Z
 
Todd,

I;m sorry. I did not mean to slight you. I don't know if you can order a 2007 Sport Trac without the Stability Control system. It maybe possible to turn it off with a dash mounted switch. I know my Grand Prix traction control could be turned off, but I never could determine under what conditions would you find it desirable to do that??



The same think goes for the stability control. I don't know why you would want to turn it off.



My guess is that you don't want to have to pay for some feature that you don't want of feel you need??? I would imagine that you could say the same thing about a lot of thinks we buy that include features or services we don't really want or need. That's how auto manufactures make money. They package and bundle things so that you can't get only what you want. You must buy the stuff you don't want in order to get the item you do want.



It's also a cost savings for the manufacture to insure they will make and sell enough of one option to reduce individual manufacturing cost.



...Rich
 
From the Sport Trac Press Release: Not sure if it answers everything, but it's a start. (It does say you can turn the stability control off if desired).



Full-featured Control Trac® four-wheel drive delivers automatic torque split, and a transfer case with gear-reducing low range



Sport Trac 4x4 models now feature the advanced Control Trac® four-wheel-drive system. It includes electronic logic, automatic torque transfer, and a two-speed transfer case with a locking center differential.



Unlike competitive systems, Control Trac® operates automatically, and only when additional traction is needed. This increases safety and security without compromising fuel economy or NVH. This makes the new Control Trac system a big advantage for the Sport Trac, according to John Davis, Sport Trac vehicle engineering manager:



“Most of the compact trucks offer a fairly simple, mechanical part-time four-wheel-drive system. These systems require some sort of operator input to engage them. And when four-wheel drive is engaged, most are not suitable for driving on partially dry pavement.



“The Honda Ridgeline offers an automatic torque split, but it is front-wheel biased, meaning power is transferred from the front-wheels back. And it lacks a low-range for heavy-duty use.”







* Electronic-shift, full-time 4WD optional on SLT and Lariat models with automatic transmissions.



Control Trac® allows a driver to select between three driving modes:



* The 4x4 AUTO (or A4WD) mode provides full power to the rear axle until the rear wheels begin to slip. Then power is automatically proportioned to the front axle as required for increased traction. This mode is appropriate for any driving condition.

* The 4x4 HIGH (4H) mode effectively locks the center differential, providing a constant 50/50 torque split between the front and rear axles. It is intended only for severe winter or off-road conditions, such as deep snow, ice and shallow sand.

* The 4x4 LOW (4L) mode locks the transfer case and engages a torque-multiplying gear set in the transfer case. It is intended only for off-road applications that require extra power, including deep sand, steep grades, and towing a boat trailer out of water.



Also some on the stability control:



Sport Trac’s agile handling and confident braking provide an added measure of safety and security during emergency maneuvers. Contributing to its confident nature is Sport Trac’s standard four-wheel, four-channel antilock braking system (ABS) with electronic brake force distribution (EBD). The ABS controls the front wheels independently and the rear wheels in tandem during heavy braking – to further help the driver maintain control of the vehicle. ABS with EBD employs dynamic proportioning, measuring braking force versus traction and allocating brake pressure to the wheels that have the best grip even before the ABS system kicks in. This helps reduce the braking distance.



Sport Trac’s exemplary braking system is paired with standard Advance Trac® with Roll Stability Control – an exclusive active safety system not offered by any other manufacturer.



This active stability enhancement system offers a significant difference when compared to typical systems. While typical systems are designed to control yaw or spinout only, Ford’s AdvanceTrac ® with Roll Stability Control goes one important step further.



It can enhance the vehicle’s resistance to rolling over.



Most systems use one gyroscopic yaw-rate sensor as they work to control yaw. AdvanceTrac ® with Roll Stability Control utilizes a second gyroscopic roll-rate sensor to determine the vehicle’s body roll angle and roll rate. If this unique roll-rate sensor detects a significant roll angle, the system applies additional countermeasures – such as applying brakes to one or more wheels or reducing engine power – to enhance vehicle rollover resis
 
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