Paul Maurer 2
Well-Known Member
I proposed this here a while back and basically got hammered- is the pendulum swinging?
Bring back 55 mph national speed limit?
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Well-Known Member
lasik1: yep, $3 gas has changed a few minds :huh:
Kerry Matthews
Well-Known Member
Drop the speed limits entirely!
If you can afford the gas, then you can go as fast as you want!
If you can afford the gas, then you can go as fast as you want!
TJR,
I think you understand my point though. People will spend extra to buy a hybrid car to save at the pump. Even though it will take years and thousands of miles (about 100,000 miles) to break even, people still think they are saving money.
I do agree with you, 80 MPH on all roads is stupid. 80 MPH on an interstate in Montana, Kansas, or any other states out west where it is 30 miles between exits, IMO, would be just as safe, if not safer then 55 MPH in NYC.
Something I find interesting is the Ohio Turnpike. The Ohio speed limit for truckers is 55 MPH and 65 MPH for cars. The Ohio Turnpike Commission raised the turnpike speed limit to 65 MPH for all vehicles.
The first thing the news posted is that there has been an increase in traffic accidents. That might be true, but since the speed limit has been raised, there have been more trucks on the Turnpike then ever before. Something like a 45% increase. So, are the traffic accidents cause by the higher speed limit, or is it because there are more vehicles on the road, therefore the accidents can go up without speed being the cause?
If a truck driver makes .35/mile driving truck for a company, at 65 MPH he will make roughly $22.75/hr. At 55 MPH he will now only make $19.25/hr.
Driving 40 hours a week, not including breaks, fuel stops, traffic concerns, etc. that drive will loose about $140.00/week in pay. A pay cut of about $7,000/year.
When I did alot of buisness travel, I spent more then my share of time on the road. I would have made more money having the national speed limit droped to 25 MPH. When my employer pays me that extra wages for travel time, they pass the cost to the customer. That customer passes the cost to thier customer. That person would be you and I.
The only thing that would sway me to consider supporting lowering the national speed limit if there was a shortage of fuel. I am talking about a real shortage, not one made up by OPEC by cutting production. I highly doubt there is a shortage of oil anywhere.
And for your first comment about truck drivers getting paid per mile, find me a semi truck that gets 24 MPG, let alone 16 MPG. The last time dad drove truck, he said he was getting about 8 MPG with a full load.
I do agree with you that money doesn't buy happiness. I know it doesn't buy happiness. Why should anyone complain about fuel prices? It is only money.
The point is, it is money.
Spending that time you spend on the road with your family will bring you happiness.
Tom
I think you understand my point though. People will spend extra to buy a hybrid car to save at the pump. Even though it will take years and thousands of miles (about 100,000 miles) to break even, people still think they are saving money.
I do agree with you, 80 MPH on all roads is stupid. 80 MPH on an interstate in Montana, Kansas, or any other states out west where it is 30 miles between exits, IMO, would be just as safe, if not safer then 55 MPH in NYC.
Something I find interesting is the Ohio Turnpike. The Ohio speed limit for truckers is 55 MPH and 65 MPH for cars. The Ohio Turnpike Commission raised the turnpike speed limit to 65 MPH for all vehicles.
The first thing the news posted is that there has been an increase in traffic accidents. That might be true, but since the speed limit has been raised, there have been more trucks on the Turnpike then ever before. Something like a 45% increase. So, are the traffic accidents cause by the higher speed limit, or is it because there are more vehicles on the road, therefore the accidents can go up without speed being the cause?
If a truck driver makes .35/mile driving truck for a company, at 65 MPH he will make roughly $22.75/hr. At 55 MPH he will now only make $19.25/hr.
Driving 40 hours a week, not including breaks, fuel stops, traffic concerns, etc. that drive will loose about $140.00/week in pay. A pay cut of about $7,000/year.
When I did alot of buisness travel, I spent more then my share of time on the road. I would have made more money having the national speed limit droped to 25 MPH. When my employer pays me that extra wages for travel time, they pass the cost to the customer. That customer passes the cost to thier customer. That person would be you and I.
The only thing that would sway me to consider supporting lowering the national speed limit if there was a shortage of fuel. I am talking about a real shortage, not one made up by OPEC by cutting production. I highly doubt there is a shortage of oil anywhere.
And for your first comment about truck drivers getting paid per mile, find me a semi truck that gets 24 MPG, let alone 16 MPG. The last time dad drove truck, he said he was getting about 8 MPG with a full load.
I do agree with you that money doesn't buy happiness. I know it doesn't buy happiness. Why should anyone complain about fuel prices? It is only money.
The point is, it is money.
Spending that time you spend on the road with your family will bring you happiness.
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
The "transitive property" quib was a joke Caymen!
I am not ready to support or to fight against "55 to save fuel" because I lack real evidence one way or the other. You keep going to the math and ignoring my simple plea, and that is, that anyone can make their point and justify their position with a simple scenario, but the real world is much more complex than that. The language of math speaks in facts, and that is why people who understand math think they can describe a problem in mathematical terms and feel comfortable that they have solved a problem or made a point. The issue is does the equation or scenario apply and scale to the national level. Yours can't...there are just too many variables. Don't shoot the messenger.
For example you say:
Your simple scenario assumes that if speed limits were reduced 10MPH that:
a) Truck drivers would comply
b) Truck drivers would continue to work the same # of hours per week
You don't specifically state these a) and b) assumptions, but they are implicit in your argument. I kinda doubt a) would hold, and I also, kinda doubt b) would hold. In other words, truckers will do what truckers always do....work the system, push/break the speed limits, and work long hours and fudge log books if needed (my step dad is a trucker).
That's why I don't have much stock in "simple mathmetical analysis"...though I did vote for Ross Perot and his fancy charts!
However, my gut tells me it won't make a difference because most major highways have chronic speeders as the majority, so, like the "war on drugs", it would be yet another govt program that has no real teeth.
BTW, I agree with you in principle and intent. I just caution you on performing simplistic analysis.
TJR
I am not ready to support or to fight against "55 to save fuel" because I lack real evidence one way or the other. You keep going to the math and ignoring my simple plea, and that is, that anyone can make their point and justify their position with a simple scenario, but the real world is much more complex than that. The language of math speaks in facts, and that is why people who understand math think they can describe a problem in mathematical terms and feel comfortable that they have solved a problem or made a point. The issue is does the equation or scenario apply and scale to the national level. Yours can't...there are just too many variables. Don't shoot the messenger.
For example you say:
Your simple scenario assumes that if speed limits were reduced 10MPH that:
a) Truck drivers would comply
b) Truck drivers would continue to work the same # of hours per week
You don't specifically state these a) and b) assumptions, but they are implicit in your argument. I kinda doubt a) would hold, and I also, kinda doubt b) would hold. In other words, truckers will do what truckers always do....work the system, push/break the speed limits, and work long hours and fudge log books if needed (my step dad is a trucker).
That's why I don't have much stock in "simple mathmetical analysis"...though I did vote for Ross Perot and his fancy charts!
However, my gut tells me it won't make a difference because most major highways have chronic speeders as the majority, so, like the "war on drugs", it would be yet another govt program that has no real teeth.
BTW, I agree with you in principle and intent. I just caution you on performing simplistic analysis.
TJR
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Gavin Allan
Well-Known Member
Raising the tax on gasoline would do much more to reduce usage than lowering the speed limit.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
I agree with that, Gavin. Raise it by $1/gallon and my consumption would decrease.
Gavin,
The price of gas continues to rise because of demand, and yet the demand continues to rise regardless of the price. So how would adding additional taxes to the price of gas help.
That would only hurt those people who are already struggling to keep gas in their cars just to go back and forth to work. That will have little effect on the guy driving the big gas guzzlers.
...Rich
The price of gas continues to rise because of demand, and yet the demand continues to rise regardless of the price. So how would adding additional taxes to the price of gas help.
That would only hurt those people who are already struggling to keep gas in their cars just to go back and forth to work. That will have little effect on the guy driving the big gas guzzlers.
...Rich
Chuck Lake
Active Member
Careful... I think that under marshall law, you can be tarred and feathered for suggesting a 55MPH speed limit :lol:
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
RichardL, most people have a threshold, economically, budgetarily, and psychologically, that they will pay for something, anything (entertainment, commodities, etc.).
Once you pass that threshold you will make them rethink their purchases and you will curb consumption in many.
If you increase costs slowly and over a long period of time, there is an acclimation that happens that lessens the shock and keeps people from changing their habits.
However, if tomorrow, the US govt raised gas tax by $1 or $2 per gallon, you HAVE to think it would reduce consumption. Sure, it might hurt the poor, but it would curb consumption.
As I said, it would reduce mine. I would start to carpool.
TJR
Once you pass that threshold you will make them rethink their purchases and you will curb consumption in many.
If you increase costs slowly and over a long period of time, there is an acclimation that happens that lessens the shock and keeps people from changing their habits.
However, if tomorrow, the US govt raised gas tax by $1 or $2 per gallon, you HAVE to think it would reduce consumption. Sure, it might hurt the poor, but it would curb consumption.
As I said, it would reduce mine. I would start to carpool.
TJR
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TJR,
You are right. Simple math does nopt prove anything.
Math was never my strength. I took 4 years of it in high school because it is so hard for me to understand.
On the otherhand, simple math can help someone decide if something is worth it or not.
You could not MAKE a truckdriver slow down, but with GPS's in trucks, it will happen. Driving more hours? Sure it is possible, up to the maximum legal hours to drive. Can it be enforced? Yup. Many trucks use GPS log books. It tells everything.
You hit the head on cronic speeders. I am one of those "bad people". I drive 10 to 20 MPH over the legal limit almost everyday. Lowering of the speedlimit will only cause me to drive 20 to 30 over the limit everyday.
I am just pointing out the just because someone says, "I got 4 MPG more driving 55 MPH then 65 MPH" does not mean they are saving money.
I had an uncle that would drive his vehicles untill the spark plugs went bad. Once he knew they were bad, he would drive the vehicle a little longer, "Just to get his money's worth" out of the plugs.
He failed to see that while his engine was misfiring, he was wasting gas and could be harming his engine.
In his eyes, he was "saving" money.
If we truly wanted to conserve fuel, IMO, one of the most effective means would be for cities to time lights correctly and go as far and place signs that say "Lights are timed at xx MPH".
Why is it that no matter what time of the day or night it is, how does someone ALWAYS get stuck at a certain light? Why, on certain streets, do you get stuck at every single traffic light driving up the road?
Lets say that the speed limit on a road is 35 MPH. Set the lights at 30 MPH and the majority of drivers will drive 30 MPH so they can catch all lights green.
Tom
You are right. Simple math does nopt prove anything.
Math was never my strength. I took 4 years of it in high school because it is so hard for me to understand.
On the otherhand, simple math can help someone decide if something is worth it or not.
You could not MAKE a truckdriver slow down, but with GPS's in trucks, it will happen. Driving more hours? Sure it is possible, up to the maximum legal hours to drive. Can it be enforced? Yup. Many trucks use GPS log books. It tells everything.
You hit the head on cronic speeders. I am one of those "bad people". I drive 10 to 20 MPH over the legal limit almost everyday. Lowering of the speedlimit will only cause me to drive 20 to 30 over the limit everyday.
I am just pointing out the just because someone says, "I got 4 MPG more driving 55 MPH then 65 MPH" does not mean they are saving money.
I had an uncle that would drive his vehicles untill the spark plugs went bad. Once he knew they were bad, he would drive the vehicle a little longer, "Just to get his money's worth" out of the plugs.
He failed to see that while his engine was misfiring, he was wasting gas and could be harming his engine.
In his eyes, he was "saving" money.
If we truly wanted to conserve fuel, IMO, one of the most effective means would be for cities to time lights correctly and go as far and place signs that say "Lights are timed at xx MPH".
Why is it that no matter what time of the day or night it is, how does someone ALWAYS get stuck at a certain light? Why, on certain streets, do you get stuck at every single traffic light driving up the road?
Lets say that the speed limit on a road is 35 MPH. Set the lights at 30 MPH and the majority of drivers will drive 30 MPH so they can catch all lights green.
Tom
Gerald Pierce
Well-Known Member
The idea behind it is to conserve the resource, not save money. If we slow down, even for a month, it would save fuel. That is the issue right now, shortages on supply of gas that is driving up the price.
I agree with the simple math of driving faster saves the company money, but money is a readily renewable resource... the gummit just prints a little more while oil is not as easy to renew.
I agree with the simple math of driving faster saves the company money, but money is a readily renewable resource... the gummit just prints a little more
while oil is not as easy to renew.cruzrtwdgt,
The questin is, is there a shortage or is it just more people buying it? I have yet to see the shortage.
That is a big difference.
Tom
The questin is, is there a shortage or is it just more people buying it? I have yet to see the shortage.
That is a big difference.
Tom
Gerald Pierce
Well-Known Member
The wholesalers in our area cant get fuel. My neighbor is a small boat guy for the navy.... they were going to take the MK5's down to NO to help in the recovery efforts but they can not get fuel in NC. The one pipeline that supplies the south east is only running at 61 pct capacity. We have lots of stations around that are running out of regular. If there is no shortage, I'd like to know where the fuel is at. Alot of folks are topping off when they dont need it, causing an increased demand, but the dealers are still having a hard time getting fuel. A local station has been limited to 50 pct of his normal supply. Several rigs broke free in the gulf, several refineries are down due to the flooding. Iknow you guys up north may not have shortages... I know Ohio has some oil wells and such from my trips through Ashland.... but here in the south, we are having issues.
