Mark K 2
Well-Known Member
I'm glad I'm not the only one to notice when most Christmas songs were written.
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Christmas songs and Baby Boomers
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Bill V
Well-Known Member
That's a really interesting chart--although I respectfully disagree with both High and the person who drew it regarding the reason it looks like that. I think this speaks more to the demographics of people who typically listen to Christmas music on the radio, the history of popular recorded music distribution, and views people have of Christmas, holidays, and traditions in general.
I believe that for most people who celebrate Christmas, their favorite Christmases are from their youth. That's regardless of when their youth occurred, and has nothing to do with when Americans had "families, a middle class, and values". It has more to do with the sheer excitement of the season, the innocence of truly believing in Santa, etc. So yes, at this time each year, lots of adults will attempt (typically in vain) to recreate those Christmases of their youth.
For the generations preceding the baby boomers, their youth didn't include much recorded music, during Christmas or any other time of the years. It was in the '40s and '50s that recorded music on the radio became a part of the culture, but even then it was fairly limited in selection. The few stations around played the same playlists. So that, by default, became the music of the culture of that generation. The music those stations played at Christmas became an intrinsic element of Christmas for the youth of that time. For these kids, those songs weren't new from their youth--they are just part of the Christmas tradition. They could date back to the 30s/40s/50s, or they could be from the sixteenth century--that's all irrelevant.
When those children grew up and had children of their own, they tried to recreate the Christmases of their youth for their kids. And that involved playing the same music as was played when they were kids. Which caused that music to become an intrinsic element of Christmas for those kids as well. And so on. And so on.
Youth today still get a lot of that same trickle-down Christmas music tradition, from those formative days of radio music culture. However, they've also nearly completely adopted the new means of collecting and listening to a much broader spectrum of music. It would be basically impossible to have radio stations playing the newer music of this generation, as the musical landscape has become so broad due to the abundance of styles and options that the stations could only appeal to a small market segment, too small to be worth broadcasting. Listeners of today control their own selections, rather than listen to what some radio station chooses for them.
This leaves the radio stations broadcasting to a market consisting of the older generations--who are still playing their songs from their youth in their continuing attempts to recreate their childhood Christmases.
Every generation thinks that the values of the American population in general were far better back in the times of their youth than what the are in the times of their adulthood. But that's a mirage, brought on by the memories of youth being clouded by the innocence of their worldly knowledge at that time, vs. the broader viewpoint of adult life. If anything, I believe that as a society, our values are continually increasing from generation to generation--less racial bigotry, less gender inequity, greater religious tolerance. We're still growing, and still have a long way to go, but we as Americans are better people than we were 50, 100, 200 years ago.
:back2topic:
It would also be interesting to know if all 20 of these listed are the original versions, or if they include any rerecordings by other artists. For example, would Springsteen's version of Santa Claus Is Coming To Town be considered to have been from the 1930s in this chart, as that's when the original version of that song came out? There are a number of other songs on that chart which I hear newer versions at least as often as I hear the original, whose numbers may be getting lumped in with the original regarding year of release.
I believe that for most people who celebrate Christmas, their favorite Christmases are from their youth. That's regardless of when their youth occurred, and has nothing to do with when Americans had "families, a middle class, and values". It has more to do with the sheer excitement of the season, the innocence of truly believing in Santa, etc. So yes, at this time each year, lots of adults will attempt (typically in vain) to recreate those Christmases of their youth.
For the generations preceding the baby boomers, their youth didn't include much recorded music, during Christmas or any other time of the years. It was in the '40s and '50s that recorded music on the radio became a part of the culture, but even then it was fairly limited in selection. The few stations around played the same playlists. So that, by default, became the music of the culture of that generation. The music those stations played at Christmas became an intrinsic element of Christmas for the youth of that time. For these kids, those songs weren't new from their youth--they are just part of the Christmas tradition. They could date back to the 30s/40s/50s, or they could be from the sixteenth century--that's all irrelevant.
When those children grew up and had children of their own, they tried to recreate the Christmases of their youth for their kids. And that involved playing the same music as was played when they were kids. Which caused that music to become an intrinsic element of Christmas for those kids as well. And so on. And so on.
Youth today still get a lot of that same trickle-down Christmas music tradition, from those formative days of radio music culture. However, they've also nearly completely adopted the new means of collecting and listening to a much broader spectrum of music. It would be basically impossible to have radio stations playing the newer music of this generation, as the musical landscape has become so broad due to the abundance of styles and options that the stations could only appeal to a small market segment, too small to be worth broadcasting. Listeners of today control their own selections, rather than listen to what some radio station chooses for them.
This leaves the radio stations broadcasting to a market consisting of the older generations--who are still playing their songs from their youth in their continuing attempts to recreate their childhood Christmases.
Every generation thinks that the values of the American population in general were far better back in the times of their youth than what the are in the times of their adulthood. But that's a mirage, brought on by the memories of youth being clouded by the innocence of their worldly knowledge at that time, vs. the broader viewpoint of adult life. If anything, I believe that as a society, our values are continually increasing from generation to generation--less racial bigotry, less gender inequity, greater religious tolerance. We're still growing, and still have a long way to go, but we as Americans are better people than we were 50, 100, 200 years ago.
:back2topic:
It would also be interesting to know if all 20 of these listed are the original versions, or if they include any rerecordings by other artists. For example, would Springsteen's version of Santa Claus Is Coming To Town be considered to have been from the 1930s in this chart, as that's when the original version of that song came out? There are a number of other songs on that chart which I hear newer versions at least as often as I hear the original, whose numbers may be getting lumped in with the original regarding year of release.
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Geez, that's a real analysis. Sounds logical. The only new Christmas songs that I'm aware of come from country and R&B artists every so often. Sure, there's the Michael Bolton type garbage that arrives on a "Holiday Album" on occasion, but most genres don't have a place to fit Christmas songs. None of them ever stick as cultural "Christmas songs," though.
As for the values, it's hard to say if it's a net increase or decrease, but it is definitely changing. Since I believe the family to be of utmost importance in society, I think we've lost a big value in the U.S.
As for the values, it's hard to say if it's a net increase or decrease, but it is definitely changing. Since I believe the family to be of utmost importance in society, I think we've lost a big value in the U.S.
EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
Im glad I grew up in the baby boomer era.
Bill V, the difference I see, in the modern American family. Is IMO, there are alot more broken homes.
We are a better society in many ways. Tolerent in predujical area's. That we should be tolerent of. We will always have redneckks though..LOL
I do think there are some area's. That morality has gone out the window. One simple example for me is. I have seen alot of good movies, in the last decade. The movie would have been just as good without the extreme cursing. Stand up Comedy doesnt need all the 4 letter words to be funny.
Some music I grew up with. Might have been sujestive, but. The de-moralized gangsta rap, geting to the top of the charts. Is over the top, IMO. We have good kids from good families listening to it. The lack of parental guidence. Has some kids thinking this is the way society is. I see it in some of my nieces and nefews. Their dis-respect has been groomed from what they listen to. My ex is an elementry teacher. She has watched the change in some good kids over the years because of it.
Im not trying to say values were better when I was younger. There were differences. I dont think it is a mirage. Road rage has always been with us, but. It has grown into a massive everyday incedent. Beyond the finger.
I see this me, me, me and me first. Growing into extreme disrespect for others. I was taught, that. "Bill and I went to black friday sales together" is proper english. Now it is "Me and Bill". I know it is just words, but to me it is a simple sign of dis-respect.
How we speak and what we listen too. Has alot to do with our actions and attitudes. IMO, the broken homes come from the me first attitudes and lack of forgivness.
Hugh and Mark sorry about my
fftopic: rant.:back2topic:
Bill V
Well-Known Member
Eddie, your comments about proper English reminded me of something I saw in this past Saturday's Washington Post. They have a weekly humor contest for their readers. The contest a few weeks ago (whose results ran this past weekend) was to submit a cynical definition of a common English word. One of the winners: "Grammar: The rules of language as spoken by the generation immediately preceding ones own."
Yes, I understand that we were taught one way, and that many in the current generation are not speaking that way. And while on the one hand, I agree that it is improper grammar, on the other hand, it is the way languages naturally evolve--but with technology drastically accelerating that evolution. Just like ketchup used to be spelled catsup, and saying that something sucks once was a direct reference to a homosexual act, and that it was once improper to use "shall" instead of "shalt", other aspects of the language are also continuing to evolve, whether we like it or not.
By the way, I doubt very much that you were taught that, "'Bill and I went to black friday sales together' is proper english." Instead, I suspect you were actually taught that both "Friday" and "English" (and, in this context, "Black") should be capitalized. So--Does this mean you're disrespecting me?? :bwahaha: J/K
And since you're loving the new English so much--Let me just mention that despite our disagreements on this site, I still consider you to be my bff. :haveabeer: :bwahaha:
Yes, I understand that we were taught one way, and that many in the current generation are not speaking that way. And while on the one hand, I agree that it is improper grammar, on the other hand, it is the way languages naturally evolve--but with technology drastically accelerating that evolution. Just like ketchup used to be spelled catsup, and saying that something sucks once was a direct reference to a homosexual act, and that it was once improper to use "shall" instead of "shalt", other aspects of the language are also continuing to evolve, whether we like it or not.
By the way, I doubt very much that you were taught that, "'Bill and I went to black friday sales together' is proper english." Instead, I suspect you were actually taught that both "Friday" and "English" (and, in this context, "Black") should be capitalized. So--Does this mean you're disrespecting me?? :bwahaha: J/K
And since you're loving the new English so much--Let me just mention that despite our disagreements on this site, I still consider you to be my bff. :haveabeer: :bwahaha:
gary s
Well-Known Member
"Christmas songs and Baby Boomers"
some mitch miller songs that my dad played during the season :supercool:
some mitch miller songs that my dad played during the season :supercool:
Bill V
Well-Known Member
FYI, the local (Twin Cities) station which plays Christmas music round-the-clock just put out their annual list of the 5 songs for which they have received the most requests this year. Note that #5 most definitely was not recorded or written in the Baby Boomer era--it was written in the '90s, and this particular version was released in 2011. So maybe things are actually changing a bit...
LiteFM 102.9′s Five Most Requested Christmas Tunes of 2011
1. White Christmas, Bing Crosby
2. Feliz Navidad, Jose Feliciano
3. The Most Wonder Time, Andy Williams
4. The Christmas Song, Nat King Cole
5. All I Want For Christmas Is You, Michael Buble
LiteFM 102.9′s Five Most Requested Christmas Tunes of 2011
1. White Christmas, Bing Crosby
2. Feliz Navidad, Jose Feliciano
3. The Most Wonder Time, Andy Williams
4. The Christmas Song, Nat King Cole
5. All I Want For Christmas Is You, Michael Buble
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Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
I'm calling BS (or at least inaccuracy) on the diagram and its stats.
For example, I know for a fact that in 1979 and 1980 you couldn't listen to the radio around Christmas and NOT hear "Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer", and that wasn't on the list.
Also, 1966 was the year that the Seuss "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" cartoon first aired, and it lead to the hit by Thurl Ravenscroft and that went on to get a lot of play on radios that decade.
Those are just a couple, and there are others that have become new holiday favorites ("Where Are You Christmas", etc), and tons of instrumentals, etc.
Statistics don't lie...but statisticians do.
TJR
For example, I know for a fact that in 1979 and 1980 you couldn't listen to the radio around Christmas and NOT hear "Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer", and that wasn't on the list.
Also, 1966 was the year that the Seuss "How the Grinch Stole Christmas" cartoon first aired, and it lead to the hit by Thurl Ravenscroft and that went on to get a lot of play on radios that decade.
Those are just a couple, and there are others that have become new holiday favorites ("Where Are You Christmas", etc), and tons of instrumentals, etc.
Statistics don't lie...but statisticians do.
TJR
EddieS'04
In Memoriam 1950-2022
Bill V,
I did that on purpose, to see if you were on your toes...LOL:bwahaha:
Not really I did a boo-boo.......:bwahaha:
:haveabeer::grin:
I have to agree with TJR. Perhaps it's a regional thing, but I am sick of hearing "Grandma got run over by a raindeer" and every year it's on the radio almost everytime I get in the car...Thank God for Sirius Satellite Radio..:banghead:
It probably has more to do with the song writers back in the 50's and 60's...That seems to be the Hey-Days of music and many songs were needed. Also, most Rap and Hip-Hop stars don't record Christmas albums so there is less demand for new Christmas songs. Back in the 50's and 60's, every recording artist had a Christmas album...Today, not so much.
Even Paul McCartney released a new Christmas song back in the 70's or 80's...I think it was called "Simply having a wonderful Christmas Day"
...Rich
It probably has more to do with the song writers back in the 50's and 60's...That seems to be the Hey-Days of music and many songs were needed. Also, most Rap and Hip-Hop stars don't record Christmas albums so there is less demand for new Christmas songs. Back in the 50's and 60's, every recording artist had a Christmas album...Today, not so much.
Even Paul McCartney released a new Christmas song back in the 70's or 80's...I think it was called "Simply having a wonderful Christmas Day"
...Rich
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Bill V
Well-Known Member
TJR, if I'm understanding you correctly, I think you're misunderstanding the chart. It's not showing which Christmas songs were big in which decades. It's showing which decades the top Christmas songs of the 2000's were written in. Yes, Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer was huge in 1979. But in 2000-2009? If you believe this chart, it wasn't in the top 20 then.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Bill V,
No misunderstanding. The chart clearly shows "most played" Christmas songs corresponding to decade of release.
Songs like: "Mean One Mr. Grinch", "Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer", "Christmas Shoes", etc, where each big the decades they were released, but they don't show up on the chart. I know I heard "Grandma Got Run Over..." at much much more than Feliz Navidad in 1979, same with "Christmas Shoes" this past decade (not shown), and "Where Are You Christmas" in the 2000s.
Maybe it is a nationwide thing, vs local thing. But there are omissions even where there are some songs for certain decades that makes me skeptical.
Are we really to believe that there were NO songs released in 80s, 90s, 2000s that were played MORE than the songs shown from other decades (their competition in most played...right?)??? I find that hard to believe.
But, then again, think of it this way...once you get a collection of "classic favorites", it probably is hard and expected to be hard for a new classic to emerge that gets more airtime than the others. There are hundreds of holiday classics that get played, over, and over and over again during this time of year. It is probably hard for a new classic to emerge.
This so-called trend may not have anything to do with baby boomers, but everything to do with "market saturation."
TJR
No misunderstanding. The chart clearly shows "most played" Christmas songs corresponding to decade of release.
Songs like: "Mean One Mr. Grinch", "Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer", "Christmas Shoes", etc, where each big the decades they were released, but they don't show up on the chart. I know I heard "Grandma Got Run Over..." at much much more than Feliz Navidad in 1979, same with "Christmas Shoes" this past decade (not shown), and "Where Are You Christmas" in the 2000s.
Maybe it is a nationwide thing, vs local thing. But there are omissions even where there are some songs for certain decades that makes me skeptical.
Are we really to believe that there were NO songs released in 80s, 90s, 2000s that were played MORE than the songs shown from other decades (their competition in most played...right?)??? I find that hard to believe.
But, then again, think of it this way...once you get a collection of "classic favorites", it probably is hard and expected to be hard for a new classic to emerge that gets more airtime than the others. There are hundreds of holiday classics that get played, over, and over and over again during this time of year. It is probably hard for a new classic to emerge.
This so-called trend may not have anything to do with baby boomers, but everything to do with "market saturation."
TJR
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Bill V
Well-Known Member
TJR, it's now even more clear that you're not yet reading the full chart title.
The chart clearly shows the 20 most played Christmas songs, in "2000-2009 radio airplay". It's right there in the title in the upper left corner of the chart. It has nothing to do with what was PLAYED in any other time period.
No, you're not to believe that, for example, there were no songs from the 80s played during the 80s. The chart has nothing to do with what was PLAYED in the 80s. It's all about the decade of origin of the top 20 Christmas songs played between 2000 and 2009 ONLY.
The chart clearly shows the 20 most played Christmas songs, in "2000-2009 radio airplay". It's right there in the title in the upper left corner of the chart. It has nothing to do with what was PLAYED in any other time period.
No, you're not to believe that, for example, there were no songs from the 80s played during the 80s. The chart has nothing to do with what was PLAYED in the 80s. It's all about the decade of origin of the top 20 Christmas songs played between 2000 and 2009 ONLY.
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Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Bill V,
Fair enough. So the diagram lists 20 songs. I guess we are supposed to infer that the top 20 most played songs between 2000 and 2009 are the list shown. I can suspect that's accurate and the chart indicative... indicative of nostalgia.
As I said, there are pretty popular songs (and they were played heavily between 2000 and 2009) and not listed. Were they the top 20? Probably not. In the top 50? Maybe.
TJR
Fair enough. So the diagram lists 20 songs. I guess we are supposed to infer that the top 20 most played songs between 2000 and 2009 are the list shown. I can suspect that's accurate and the chart indicative... indicative of nostalgia.
As I said, there are pretty popular songs (and they were played heavily between 2000 and 2009) and not listed. Were they the top 20? Probably not. In the top 50? Maybe.
TJR
Bill V
Well-Known Member
TJR, agreed. I'm personally rather surprised that Mariah Carey's "All I Want For Christmas Is You" wasn't Top 20 during the last decade.
