Dewalt & Milwaukee Cordless Power Tools: Your Opinion?

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Carey Frennier

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So, my 5 year old Craftsman 5 Tool C3 kit is down all batteries and three tools (all burned out).



I use my tools almost every single night for 2-3 hours a night. I use them for general homeowner, remodel and new construction, mechanical service and small metal fabrication applications.



For the money, I really liked the versitility of the C3 line and I've always been a fan of most Craftsman products. I own a great Craftsman Pro grade table saw, compound miter saw, bench drill press, amazing craftsman pro vise and a slew of basic hand tools that have never let me down.



I'm doing more and more work myself these days. Money is pretty tight as sales have dropped off the face of the earth (allocation death spiral for new KIA inventory). Often, it's not worth the money to go into work and pay a contractor. Last year was a totally different story.



I'd thought about upgrading my Craftsman DieHard 19.2V batteries to Li-Ion but I can't see making the investment in charger, three batteries for only two working tools. I could repurchase the ones that died on me but they were exceptionally underpar feeling tools compared to the rest of the kit.



So now I'm shopping for some tools.



I've really looked hard at what I need and what I want to spend.



I need a contractor grade tool.

I want a flat battery Li-Ion.

I want all Metal chucks, gearing etc.

I want tool line versatility.

I want value in the $600 mark.



So far, the Milwaukee M18 line and the Dewalt 20V MAX line have my attention. I also really like the Milwaukee M12 line and the Dewalt 12V MAX line. They all have their pros and cons.



I like the features per tool and the tool quality a little better in the Dewalt line. I like the value of the Milwaukee M18 line more. I like the fact that the Dewalt 20V MAX chargers can charge the 12V MAX batteries also. So if I wanted a couple compact, smaller tools, I could just buy the tool and one battery. However, the Milwaukee M12 compact line seems to dust the Dewalt 12V MAX in selection and features per dollar. They even have a heated jacket for the M12!



Back on the farm, we used all Milwaukee and Dewalt. Dewalt was usually better but that's like 20 years ago.



What do you use and why? What would you pick as your primary line between the M18 and the 20V MAX?
 
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Carey,



I run a tool room in the Facilities & Services department at the University of Illinois. I supply tools & equipment to just about every craft & trade you can think of on a daily basis. When I took this job a few years ago, I found that most of our power tools (both corded and cordless) were anywhere from 5-8 or more years old. Given the many hours of use & abuse that these tools had seen in a commercial setting over the course of their lifespans, I decided to begin a process of phasing out the old tools in favor of newer gear. We had a number of brands in the tool room (Makita, Milwaukee, DeWalt, B&D, etc.). For simplicity's sake I decided to replace everything with only one or two brands. This way, I wouldn't have to keep a bunch of different battery chargers on my bench, and wouldn't have to stock so many different replacement batteries. Since most of our tradesmen used primarily Milwaukee & DeWalt, I focused my replacement research on those two brands.



Both are very good brands, and both offer a lot of similar tools. By the same token, both offer some tools to particular trades and not others. For example, DeWalt offers a bunch of cordless tools traditionally used by Carpenters (routers, nailers, etc.) where Milwaukee does not offer those tools. Conversely, Milwaukee offers a bunch of cordless tools geared towards the pipe trades (pipe presses, etc.) that are not offered by DeWalt. So I buy both Milwaukee and DeWalt tools depending what it is and who will be using them.



Milwaukee offers a five-year warranty on their cordless tools (including batteries). DeWalt's warranty is only three years.



Also, Milwaukee offers an excellent service program via their website (eService Tool Repair). If you need service (warranty or not), you just go online, fill out a service ticket, print out a shipping label & send it off. DeWalt's service process isn't so easy. I've had a lot of problems with it when trying to get repairs for my DeWalt tools, so I don't use it anymore.



Both companies are a few generations into Li-Ion battery technology. DeWalt calls theirs "20V Max", but under load, it's really only 18 volts just like all the others. You mentioned wanting "thin" batteries. Bear in mind that the smaller batteries will not have the capacity of the larger ones. Milwaukee offers a thin 18 volt battery, and then and "XC" version which is thicker and double the capacity of the thin one. Both companies now offer a charger that will charge their 12v and 18V batteries. As a matter of fact, Milwaukee now ships most of their 18v line with the multi-charger.



Milwaukee's 18v batteries also have an LED "power gauge" on them so you know how much "juice" is left. In their 12 volt line, this feature is found on the tool itself. To the best of my knowledge so far, DeWalt doesn't offer this feature on any of their cordless tools.



Both companies are also rapidly moving towards brushless, solid-state motors in many of their cordless tools. Milwaukee was the first out with these with their "FUEL" line of drills & drivers. The advantage here is less wear/tear/maintenance without a conventional motor/brushes and the solid state motor makes better/more efficient use of the battery's power.



Milwaukee offers a saw called the "Hackzall". Basically a smaller, one-handed sawzall. I and my guys love it. There isn't much that it won't cut with the right blade. This comes in both 18 and 12 volt versions.



If you haven't already deduced it, I now buy mostly Milwaukee products, unless it's something for a specific trade that Milwaukee just doesn't offer. I decided on Milwaukee for a number of reasons, some of which I mentioned above, and here are a few more:



1. An actual Milwaukee sales rep calls on me several times a year. I've see a DeWalt rep maybe twice in the last several years. Points to Milwaukee for customer service.

2. There's a local contractor vendor who's an authorized Milwaukee dealer/service center. This allows me to get more local, personal sales/service, and I can also go to their store and lay hands on/play with tools prior to purchasing them.

3. Two or three times a year, Milwaukee offers a trade-in program. They'll usually give $100-off any new 18 volt purchase with a 14.4 volt or higher trade-in. I've gotten rid of a lot of my old stuff this way.



If I were you, I'd find a local Milwaukee vendor (their website has a locator) and go take a serious look at their 12 volt line. The modern 12 volt Li-Ion tools have all of the power and more in some cases than previous generations of Ni-Cad 18 Volt tools. So this might be a way for you to save a little $$$ rather than spending more for the 18 volt tools. Also, the 12 volt line is a little smaller, which means less wear and tear on you & your body. Probably for what you're doing at home, the 12 volt line would work very well. I've also bought several tools in Miwaukee's 12 volt line for home, and I've not found anything yet for which I've needed a larger (18 volt) tool.



Feel free to contact me directly if you have any questions.
 
Thought of a few other things:



Both D & M offer "jobsite" radios. DeWalt's won't take the new line of "MAX" batteries, only the older "XRP"-style. Milwaukee offers both a 12 volt and 18 volt radio that work with the new "Red Lithium" line of batteries. I had the 18-volt version at home, but decided I didn't need one that big and sold it and bought the 12 Volt radio for the garage.



The Milwaukee jackets are very cool. They even offer a Real-Tree camo version for hunters. The current generation of the jackets out this fall even has a USB connection in the breast pocket for your mobile phone. :banana:



If you're doing mechanical work too, Milwaukee offers a both 1/4" and 3/8" drive power ratchets in their 12 volt line. Those are very cool!:banana:



If you look at other brands, know that DeWalt, Porter-Cable, and Stanley are subsidiaries of parent company Black & Decker.
 
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We use Milwaukee but both have good and cheap models. The batteries seem to do better in the Milwaukees and the saws are better. DeWalt are more available but I would be careful with the "homedepot" model. You can look at their websites and compare between them.
 
My 2 cents... Milwaukee failed me on a corded drill. Repair would be more than the drill is worth. B&D isn't what it used to be. Dewalt's are OK, but the cordless drills don't have good balance that I like, but my Dewalt miter saw is the best. no hangups on the safety cover like a lot of them.



Now, since all these products are made in china, I recommend the Ryobi from Home Depot. My old Blue one is 12 yrs old, still works after dropping it off a 6 ft ladder dozens of times, and drywalling a whole house and then some. The old batteries are shot, but the new green colored Li-ion batteries fit it, so Ryobi wins by not changing the form factor after 12 years. I have a newer 18 V Ryobi and it is a lot lighter than the old blue one. We have one at my shop too. I bought the jig saw when I was in Taiwan, which is branded Homelite, but still compatible and still the green color, not the orange that homelites here are. It works well, has a laser, and an LED light.



A bonus, the newer Li-ion batteries actually make the old previously silly 4" circular saw worth having. You can make a lot of cuts on one charge, and the batteries also have a smart charger so they don't overcharge.

 
Thank you for your insight TrainTrac.



I found a local Milwaukee dealer in Plattsburgh and they happen to have their Milwaukee rep in today from 11-1. I'm going to go talk to them but I think I've made up my mind on Milwaukee.



I plan on buying the M18: Sawzall, 6-1/2" Circ saw, 1/4" Hex impact driver, 1/2" Hammer drill, 4-1/2" Cut-Off Grinder and a Work light.



I also want a few tools from the M12: 3/8 or 1/4 Ratchet. I'd like to also get one of their 3/8" Drill/Drivers, Palm Nailer, 3/8" Right Angle Drill/Driver, and the HackZall.



 
Good call, Carey. :supercool: Get the "Fuel" line of M18 impact driver and 1/2" hammer drill/driver. Those are the ones with the new brushless/solid-state motors. They're great tools. As for the work light, get the newer LED version. It's much brighter, and of course uses less juice. If you don't get the LED light, Milwaukee makes LED replacement bulbs that retrofit the standard work lights.



If you're going to get the M12 3/8" drill/driver, you might as well go ahead and get the M12 Hammerdrill/driver. It's not that much more than the standard drill/driver, and you'll have the hammer function in a smaller, lighter drill.



Also, if you're planning to buy that many tools, see if you can "wheel & deal" with the dealer to get him to throw in one of the M12 or M18 radios for free, or at a discount. If not, the least he should do is give you a free Milwaukee t-shirt or two!:grin:
 
Psycareyo,

I have used and own both brands, and I like both brands. Both make quality tools and are similarly priced. If push comes to shove, I would lean towards the one with the best warranty, which according to TrainTrac appears to be the Milwaukee... but that may vary from individual tools. Either way, you can't go wrong with either brand.



...Rich
 
but that may vary from individual tools.
Click to expand...



Nope:

Every MILWAUKEE power tool (including cordless product tool, battery pack(s) - see separate & distinct CORDLESS BATTERY PACK LIMITED WARRANTY statements & battery charger and Work Lights*) is warranted to the original purchaser only to be free from defects in material and workmanship. Subject to certain exceptions, MILWAUKEE will repair or replace any part on an electric power tool which, after examination, is determined by MILWAUKEE to be defective in material or workmanship for a period of five (5) years* after the date of purchase unless otherwise noted. Return of the power tool to a MILWAUKEE factory Service Center location or MILWAUKEE Authorized Service Station, freight prepaid and insured, is required. A copy of the proof of purchase should be included with the return product. This warranty does not apply to damage that MILWAUKEE determines to be from repairs made or attempted by anyone other than MILWAUKEE authorized personnel, misuse, alterations, abuse, normal wear and tear, lack of maintenance, or accidents.
Click to expand...
 
Have you thought about certified reconditioned? I've bought a few things from www.bigskytool.com and couldn't even tell they were not new. Also saved a ton of money.
 
TrainTrac,

Excuse my poorly worded sentence...I did not mean that the warranty varied for different tools. I meant that he might like the features of some individual tools ie: He may prefer the balance and feel of a DeWalt reciprocating saw over the Milwaukee model, but might like the balance and feel of a Milwaukee Hammer-Drill over the DeWalt model Hammer-Drill.



My point was that sometimes the warranty matters less, and can be trumped by an individuals tastes or personal preferences.



...Rich
 
Jeffksf,



I actually prefer refurbished. Most of the tools I want, do not have refurbished units available yet. Also, the Milwaukee trade in program is only good for new.



TrainTrac,



I'm very attracted to the M12 line. Do you think I could get buy with the M12 and only carry a couple M18 tools like the Circular Saw, Sawzall and Hammer Drill/Driver? I'd mostly use the impact driver and ratchet. I much prefer a physically smaller M12 over the M18. I see that have a M12 FUEL (brushless) system is coming out, this winter and they say that they will have equal power to a compact M18 or 18V tool. I see they have the Hammer Drill/Driver, Impact Driver and the Impact Wrench coming. That may be the way to go.



Afterall, My Craftsman 19.2V have been good on power. They are terrible in reliability, charge time and weight.
 
Richard L,



Roger that. No worries, thanks for the clarification. I totally understand your point.:grin:



Carey,



Yeah, if you think the M12 line will meet your needs, then I'd say go with that. Honestly, I think you'll be pretty satisfied with the the M12 products for most everything you'll do at home. They have quite a bit of power, and the Fuel line is great. Even the M12 Hammerdrill/driver (2411-20) will probably meet most of your needs rather than the M18 version. So if you can wait for the M12 Fuel products, then do that. Just bear in mind that there won't be any trade with those. Milwaukee typically only offers the trade-in deal with the M18 line.
 
So I ordered the M12 Ratchet bare tool, one extra 1.5Ah Red Lithium Batter and the M12 Rotory Tool Kit (comes with charger and battery). They were both on sale. The reconditioned varients were just not cheap enough for me. They are not making a FUEL version of the above tools. I have a couple more M12 tools I want to purchase later.



I'm going to see how I like these and then order the Milwaukee M18 6 tool kit with the Sawzall, Cut-Off tool, Circ Saw, Light, Hammer Drill, and Impact Driver. If I don't order this kit, I may hold out for the M12 FUEL Impact Driver and Hammer Drill. Although, I still would need the Cut-Off tool, circ saw and Sawzall so maybe I should just focus on the M18 line for everything else.
 
Hey TrainTrac,



I've got basically all the M18 and M12 tools I want except two.



The jigsaw and the impact wrench.



I have a question for you. I want an impact wrench for lug nuts and whatever else I'd need regarding vehicle maintainence. The M18 version is 2000 inch pounds or 166 point feet. That should certainly decimate any rust lugs or exhaust bolts. Although, I like the size and compactness of the M12 with 1000 inch pounds or 83 pound feet of torque. That may not be enough for some really rusty applications but it would be fine for lugs? I can't remember what my wife's car and my vehicle require for torque specs but im thinking it's more than that.



 
I actually now have the heated jacket (will be awesome plowing and brushing snow off dealership cars), M12 screwdriver, rotary tool, multi-tool, hackzall, and the 3/8 ratchet. Also just got the M18 impact driver, circ saw, SAWSALL, radio, hammer drill, cutoff tool, and work light.



Also picked up the Rockwell Jawhorse Sheetmaster and I love it!



So yeah need some help with the M12 or M18 impact wrench and jigsaw.
 
Carey,



What did you get in the M18 line? Did you get the Fuel hammerdrill/driver? Just curious. If you don't need the impact wrench right away, I'd suggest waiting until the M18 Fuel impact wrench comes out later this winter. Might as well get the M18 1/2" drive wrench rather than the M12 wrench since it doesn't cost that much more. Seems like a no-brainer since you get much more power for a little more money. And the Fuel line is a little more compact and lighter than the traditional brush-motor models. If you're going to use it with 3/8" drive sockets just get a 1/2"-3/8" adapter.



Other than that, it sounds like you've outfitted your tool box pretty will with all the other gear. Guess Christmas came early for you this year, huh? You're gonna make Tim Allen jealous!



Let me know if you have any more questions.



Andy
 
:supercool::banana:



Sounds like you're just about set. Let us know how that jacket works out this winter. I may buy the black one, but am interested to hear real-world feedback from someone who's already got one.
 
Go with the 18V impact wrench. For a lot of car projects 83 ft-lbs isnt very much. On the ST's, the lugs are suggested to be tightened between 80-100 lb-ft putting 83 a little low on that scale. IMO you can always go lower than max torque with a wrench but if you need more you won't have it. I am quite jealous of your tool collection though!
 

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