Do I really need a new engine?

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John Turner 4

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Hi -



First post, but I've been lurking for a long time. Just doing searches in these forums has helped me out with a ton of info about my 2001 Job One.



My truck is in the shop right now. Some history: I take good care of my truck...all recommended maintenence, etc. New battery, new brakes when needed, new shocks, new tires, regular oil changes, new thermostat.



About six months ago, the lefthand sway bar bushing in the front broke and needed replacing. While getting that done (they did the righthand side too), I had them flush/fill the trans and flush/fill the coolant. This was at about 97,500 miles. At the time, they said the timing belt/chain was rattling. True, but after awhile it would go away, so I did some searches here (thanks!) and put it down to the tensioner deal on cold start.



Last week, the rattle got louder, and more constant. Then last Wednesday, the check engine light came on. I wasn't worried...at 99,300 I figured something needed replacing, no big deal. When I took it in, I told them about the check engine light and also told them to replace the timing belt as well as whatever caused the check engine light.



Next day, I get a call and they tell me the timing belt is shot and needs replacing, and that the "upper and lower intake gaskets" are bad and need replacing, and that there is a lot of sludge built up. Then the dreaded words: "looks like you need a new engine".



I am very worried...I have no problem paying for repairs that are needed and am not trying to weasel something for nothing. I just cannot believe that a truck that was driving fine (no acceleration problems, etc) has a check engine light come on and then needs a new engine. The timing belt was making noise, granted, but it did not fail...the only thing wrong right up to the second I turned my truck off to turn it into the shop was the check engine light and the rattle noise. Oil pressure was up, temp was fine, battery was fine.



Sorry for the long post, I am just really worked up. The shop says they will "know more" on Monday after their engine tech can investigate the lower end in more detail to see "how much damage the sludge caused".



I think they are trying to steamroll me into a new engine (quoted at $3200 parts and labor, 12 month warranty). I think that all I need are the new intake gaskets, clean out the sludge, and replace the timing belt and pulleys or whatever they're called (quoted at $1700 parts and labor).



Any advice or help? The truck is paid off and in good condition...I fully expected to drive it another 2 years or so, if not more.



Again, sorry for the long post as you can prob tell I am worked up. I am pretty handy but can only do the basics so really don't know what I should do. Any help or advice is really appreciated!!!





 
Ford has ran the 4.0L SOHC engine WITHOUT the tensioner and timing was maintained and there were no adverse effects.



The lower intake manifold gfaskets were a trouble spot on the '01 Job 1 engines. Replacing them is not that tough of a job. You can do it yourself. Also while the manifold is off, you can replace the tensioner.



Buy the kit mentioned in the 00M12 recall notice. That includes the upper and lower gasket, tensioner, oil galley plug, and oil restrictor tube. You can get the kit from the dealer and also negotiate for a lower price. Have the service department print you out the recall notice and instructions. It will show you step-by-step on how to fix that issue.



As for the oil sludge, this is the first I have heard about it. I am sure if you get the tensioner and gasket issue resolved, a good engine flush will clean out the sludge.



Honestly, I think your mechanic is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. The Sport Trac does NOT have a timing belt. It is a timing chain. Because you drove the vehicle with engine noise and check engine light, he is taking you for a sucker. I think the engine sludge comment is just the final nail in the coffin, so to speak, to get you to pay for an engine swap.



Is there any way you can get your vehicle to Akron, Ohio? I can help you fix the gasket and replace the tensioner. I can also help you with some engine flush.



Let me know. Email me privatly. I have something else that may help you with your decision.



Check my profile for my email address.





Tom
 
BTW, here is the kit number for the tensioner and gasket.



YL2Z-9E473-AA



I mean it. Email me, I am more that willing to help.





Tom
 
Thanks for all the replies.



Caymen, I will email you, but I don't think I can get my truck to Akron. Many thanks, though, for the offer.



I should add that this is a dealer...I have been a customer of their's for 20 years and never felt that they were steering me wrong, but this time my suspicions are up, big time. I should also add that I work as an agency contractor at Ford, so have some minimal access to internal docs, so I will try and look up info on the intranet on Monday. As a contractor, though, I don't have as much access as an employee would.



Does a shop/dealer have the right to refuse to do work? I feel like I am in a weak position...they have my truck on a hoist somewhere with parts off it...what can I bargain with? For example, how would I get a second opinion if they won't put my truck back together? I will definitely talk to the service manager on Monday and use the info you guys have given me so far to see if their story changes any.



My suspicions are up, I just find it hard to believe that this dealer would be doing this after all these years. They are also the closest dealer to Ford HQ...they do a ton of Ford business, it boggles my mind that they would be doing something shady when crazy amounts of business are almost guaranteed due to their location, but as I said (and you guys have pretty much confirmed) I think they are trying to steamroll me for some reason that I cannot figure out.



Thank you so much for the replies, advice, and help!!

 
The dealer is chargin you his premium labor charge, that's why it's so expensive. Probably charging you about $85 per hour for labor.



Replacing the engine is often cheaper since they only need to pull the engine out and drop the replacment engine in. If you had the tools and know-how, you could do this yourself with a used, low mileage engine from a wrecked Sport Trac or Explorer and probably only cost you about half the price.



If you are handy with tools, you can replace the whole timing chain and tensioner, as well as the upper and lower intake gaskets over a weekend if you have the tools and the know-how.



If you are not into doing mechanical work at this level, then you would probably be bbetter off locating a used V6 out of a wrecked 2001-2006 Sport Trac or Explorer and get an independent garage to do the swap for you. If you can find an engine with 25K miles or less it would be like getting a new engine at half the price.



The heaviest part of the dealer's charges is in ther high labor rates. You could even have an independent garage quote you a price to replace the timing chain/tensioner and intake gaskets and save a lot of money.



...Rich



 
FWIW, to replace the timing chain tensioner and intake manifold gaskets, per that campain is 2.1 hrs.





Tom
 
Wow, so $1700 is a crazy quote. Man, you guys are amazing! I'm really glad I asked for your advice.



I am going to tell them on Monday to fax me the quote for replacing the gaskets and chain tensioner...I want to see exactly what they're trying to charge me for before I give them the OK.



2 hours, heck even 6 or 8 hours at $85 an hour is $700. The parts can't be more than a couple hundred. That's a lot less than the $1700 they quoted me.

 
I am replacing my engine at 187k miles. previous owner did not care for it at all. I purchased an engine from lowmileageengines.com with less than 16k miles on it for $1400.00 delivered to my door, car fax report, 199 day warrenty. All that I could find locally was engines with 85k - 140k miles and they wanted over 1k dollars for them. My point is you can get a low mileage engine for what they are quoting you to repair just the timing chain issue.
 

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