Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
...and after the shipping rush (in which I would personally ship nothing) I will be making my way to your online store to pick up a few things 
Ebay no longer rocks for me...
- Thread starter blksn8k
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Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
ToddZ said:
And, conversely, the buyer should put in a first, max bid which truly is the max they are willing to pay and is reasonable, and therefore they will never get sniped by someone who is trying to win "lowball" auctions.
TJR
And, conversely, the buyer should put in a first, max bid which truly is the max they are willing to pay and is reasonable, and therefore they will never get sniped by someone who is trying to win "lowball" auctions.
TJR
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
MTU said:
Nope, you aren't missing anything. You got it.
TJR
Nope, you aren't missing anything. You got it.
TJR
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Kevin L,
I am not sure if your post was sarcastic or not.
Or do you really hold snipers at low regard, as if scum, and somehow not real men? Do you really think that the battle of an eBay bidding war is some kind of test of manhood that if avoided makes one less a man?
If so, if you really think that way, call I can say is: ponderous.
Also, eBay auctions are NOT like auctions throughout history in the real world as BillV said. In a normal auction when someone sneaks in a bid just prior to the auctioneer saying "sold" (analogous to the eBay auction end deadline) then the auction gets extended, with other bidders continuing to get the option to place higher bids. Some auction sites actually work that way. For example, liquidation.com has a system in which if a bid comes in during the last minute of the auction the listing gets extended by 3 minutes, and that can happen again and again if late bids keep coming in. That's more like the real world, IMHO..
TJR
I am not sure if your post was sarcastic or not.
Or do you really hold snipers at low regard, as if scum, and somehow not real men? Do you really think that the battle of an eBay bidding war is some kind of test of manhood that if avoided makes one less a man?
If so, if you really think that way, call I can say is: ponderous.
Also, eBay auctions are NOT like auctions throughout history in the real world as BillV said. In a normal auction when someone sneaks in a bid just prior to the auctioneer saying "sold" (analogous to the eBay auction end deadline) then the auction gets extended, with other bidders continuing to get the option to place higher bids. Some auction sites actually work that way. For example, liquidation.com has a system in which if a bid comes in during the last minute of the auction the listing gets extended by 3 minutes, and that can happen again and again if late bids keep coming in. That's more like the real world, IMHO..
TJR
Last edited by a moderator:
Bill V
Well-Known Member
TJR, I didn't say that ebay auctions are idenitical to traditional auctions--I said they're similar. And they are, in many ways, including those that I feel are most relevant to this discussion: The highest bidder wins, the auctioner receives a cut of the sale proceeds, and until the auctioneer says "sold", anyone can place a higher bid. Yes, there are some differences, including that the ebay sale ends at a certain time, regardless of when the last bid occurs, and that the on ebay, the sale goes for a certain amount higher than the second-highest bid, rather than the amount of the highest bid. But those really don't have any impact on the gripes being aired here.
If ebay ran as a "traditional" auction, the other bidders would still be coming in and running the auction prices up just as much. Who cares if the winning bid comes in at the last second--any bidder still has a chance to outbid them prior to that, and if those bidders failed to place their top offer prior to the deadline, that's their problem, not ebay's or the last-second bidder's.
Kevin--Get real!!! So you're saying that if someone pays $200 for a $20 item at the last second, he's not a "real man", but somehow, if he pays $200 for a $20 item three days in advance, he is? No way. If that person puts in the $200 bid, it's still going to take a $201 bid (or whatever the minimum bid increment is in the $200 range) to beat him. It doesn't matter if the $200 or the $201 bids come in three days early, or at the last second. The "bid war" you speak of is already in existance, for the entire duration of the auction, including the final seconds. You're just whining because you're losing those wars.
And if you're wanting to talk about things that a "real man" doesn't do--I would definitely include "whining about losing an ebay auction" on the list.
If ebay ran as a "traditional" auction, the other bidders would still be coming in and running the auction prices up just as much. Who cares if the winning bid comes in at the last second--any bidder still has a chance to outbid them prior to that, and if those bidders failed to place their top offer prior to the deadline, that's their problem, not ebay's or the last-second bidder's.
Kevin--Get real!!! So you're saying that if someone pays $200 for a $20 item at the last second, he's not a "real man", but somehow, if he pays $200 for a $20 item three days in advance, he is? No way. If that person puts in the $200 bid, it's still going to take a $201 bid (or whatever the minimum bid increment is in the $200 range) to beat him. It doesn't matter if the $200 or the $201 bids come in three days early, or at the last second. The "bid war" you speak of is already in existance, for the entire duration of the auction, including the final seconds. You're just whining because you're losing those wars.
And if you're wanting to talk about things that a "real man" doesn't do--I would definitely include "whining about losing an ebay auction" on the list.
Sniping auctions is what makes eBay so cool. I have no doubt that there are people that randomly shill bid auctions for fun.
eBay is a game. I throughly enjoy buying on eBay. There is a pattern to eBay, I have not done enough research to figure it out, but avoid bidding on auctions when there are bad storms in the south. Beginning and end of the month are usually bad too.
Tom
eBay is a game. I throughly enjoy buying on eBay. There is a pattern to eBay, I have not done enough research to figure it out, but avoid bidding on auctions when there are bad storms in the south. Beginning and end of the month are usually bad too.
Tom
WXMotorSports DecalsPartsAccs
Well-Known Member
It's been proven and I've had great success with it. Ending auctions around 7:30 PST. during the week.
Ending 4:30PM PST on the weekends.
Also, listing for 3 days. And, if there are no bids moving that to 7 days. Shows up faster and with the right tools you could move the auctions in bulk.
Ending 4:30PM PST on the weekends.
Also, listing for 3 days. And, if there are no bids moving that to 7 days. Shows up faster and with the right tools you could move the auctions in bulk.
blksn8k
Well-Known Member
I guess the real problem I am seeing in this situation and which no one seems to have grasped yet is the what these types of auctions have done or have contributed to as far as the collector car hobby is concerned. And that is the fact that Ebay, Barrett-Jackson, etc. have become the place of choice to sell collector cars and collector car parts because sellers know that they will probably get more than the item is really worth. I don't blame that on the sellers because they are just taking advantage of the system. When I have seen items advertised on other online classifieds for acceptable prices and then offered to buy those items only to have the seller inform me that "I saw what the last one sold for on Ebay so I decided not to sell it to you. I'm putting it on Ebay.", I see that as a problem. And I have had it happen several times.
In most cases the best deals at swap meets are made between dealers before the general public is even allowed into the show. And the majority of the best parts that are not sold for a higher price to the general public are put on Ebay. At least prior to Ebay if I wanted a part I could probably find it eventually at a swap meet for a fair price and I could actually see it, touch it and decide for myself if it was really worth that price. I'm sorry, but in most cases a picture or description on Ebay is not going to give me that knowledge and there is a better than even chance that I will pay too much for a piece of someone else's junk.
In most cases the best deals at swap meets are made between dealers before the general public is even allowed into the show. And the majority of the best parts that are not sold for a higher price to the general public are put on Ebay. At least prior to Ebay if I wanted a part I could probably find it eventually at a swap meet for a fair price and I could actually see it, touch it and decide for myself if it was really worth that price. I'm sorry, but in most cases a picture or description on Ebay is not going to give me that knowledge and there is a better than even chance that I will pay too much for a piece of someone else's junk.
blksn8k,
It is their right to sell it in any possible way to make sure they make as much money as possible.
You just need to find something they really need, then trade.
I think it all boils down to frustration. You are tying to build up a car, and it seems like everyone is getting in your way.
Am I right?
Tom
It is their right to sell it in any possible way to make sure they make as much money as possible.
You just need to find something they really need, then trade.
I think it all boils down to frustration. You are tying to build up a car, and it seems like everyone is getting in your way.
Am I right?
Tom
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
blks,
In another thread I described on eBay has torn down the regional walls allowing for the whole world to be the marketplace for a local product. It used to be the market for a product was limited to people who would travel to a swap meet...not anymore, and that drives up the prices.
TJR
In another thread I described on eBay has torn down the regional walls allowing for the whole world to be the marketplace for a local product. It used to be the market for a product was limited to people who would travel to a swap meet...not anymore, and that drives up the prices.
TJR
Bill V
Well-Known Member
In some regions. In others, it brings the prices way down, or makes products available that previously couldn't be obtained without an unrealistic amount of travel.
Mark B
Active Member
I snipe the old fashioned way. In person with an 'atomic' clock that matches ebay's clock to the second.
As a prospective buyer, you want one person to make the opening bid to lock in the item. Anyone else that bids before the final seconds is just running up the final price. Like it or not, that's the model ebay creates.
As an occasional seller, bless you bidders that think bidding on day 2 of 7 helps you win somehow.
No doubt, ebay has changed the game in many markets. I can see car parts being one of them. Limited production/high demand electronics is another. I'm still looking for a Wii at retail price. That's the power of a medium like the internet that can so specifically and universally connect buyers to sellers.
As a prospective buyer, you want one person to make the opening bid to lock in the item. Anyone else that bids before the final seconds is just running up the final price. Like it or not, that's the model ebay creates.
As an occasional seller, bless you bidders that think bidding on day 2 of 7 helps you win somehow.
No doubt, ebay has changed the game in many markets. I can see car parts being one of them. Limited production/high demand electronics is another. I'm still looking for a Wii at retail price. That's the power of a medium like the internet that can so specifically and universally connect buyers to sellers.
Bill V
Well-Known Member
The one gripe I do have about the way ebay does business is the way it lets sellers back out of auctions. I've seen many times where few people have bid on an item, and the seller is afraid there won't be a sniping war and the item may go cheaply, so instead, moments before the auction ends, the seller cancels the auction. They simply report to ebay that the item is "no longer available for sale", and they're out, scott-free. If you don't want the item to potentially be sold for cheap, increase your starting bid or reserve price.
Kevin Lang
Well-Known Member
When you put your bid in earlier, it gives your opponent a chance to retaliate. If you want to wait until the last second and put in a drastically large bid, you are eliminating that chance. A real man does not avoid conflict, but these snipers do.
Why do you assume that I loose the auctions? I make a point to come back 30 seconds before the auction ends, and ride it out to make sure that some french shower with a paid service sniping FOR HIM--NO respect for that at all--doesn't beat me with cowardice.
There's a fair fight, and then there's the "bringing a gun to a knife fight". Both have their place, but sniping is no fight at all. The premise of sniping is to kill your adversary with precision and little to no chance of retaliation. I am sorry that some people can't bring themselves to actually step up to the plate, but their lack of courage shouldn't penalize me.
As for bidding in advance, that is the smart thing to do, as I have had many auctions which I haven't bid on until late be canceled due to lack of interest. When everybody snipes, no one wins.
The fact that eBay a) Condones Sniping Services and b) Hides the user names of snipers , is unforgivable. It's designed to allow the most money to be funneled into their coffers, understandable, but the most money comes from the Rich, and the rich are the ones who typically lack manhood.
Is paying someone to snipe for you any different than paying someone to take your place in the draft? They are not different things, rather the same despicable act, in a different medium.
Cowardice...I can't believe this.
Why do you assume that I loose the auctions? I make a point to come back 30 seconds before the auction ends, and ride it out to make sure that some french shower with a paid service sniping FOR HIM--NO respect for that at all--doesn't beat me with cowardice.
There's a fair fight, and then there's the "bringing a gun to a knife fight". Both have their place, but sniping is no fight at all. The premise of sniping is to kill your adversary with precision and little to no chance of retaliation. I am sorry that some people can't bring themselves to actually step up to the plate, but their lack of courage shouldn't penalize me.
As for bidding in advance, that is the smart thing to do, as I have had many auctions which I haven't bid on until late be canceled due to lack of interest. When everybody snipes, no one wins.
The fact that eBay a) Condones Sniping Services and b) Hides the user names of snipers , is unforgivable. It's designed to allow the most money to be funneled into their coffers, understandable, but the most money comes from the Rich, and the rich are the ones who typically lack manhood.
Is paying someone to snipe for you any different than paying someone to take your place in the draft? They are not different things, rather the same despicable act, in a different medium.
Cowardice...I can't believe this.
blksn8k
Well-Known Member
I guess I'm preaching to the wrong choir here. Unless you have actually been through the same set of circumstances you probably cannot relate. You can philosophize all you want about my "frustration" but the fact remains that Ebay has made a tough situation worse in my opinion.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Kevin L,
So to summarize your position:
making money, supply-and-demand, electronic trading, being rich, and buying things at a price you are willing to pay instead of allowing them to sell at a lower price for people wanting a "good deal" are all signs of people that lack manhood.
If you don't like sniping, bid early and the most you are willing to pay. 'Nuff said.
It's a good system.
The issue isn't the sniper, really. It's the fact that we all have so much more competition for what would have in the past, prior to eBay, been niche items wanted only by a few locals.
TJR
So to summarize your position:
making money, supply-and-demand, electronic trading, being rich, and buying things at a price you are willing to pay instead of allowing them to sell at a lower price for people wanting a "good deal" are all signs of people that lack manhood.
If you don't like sniping, bid early and the most you are willing to pay. 'Nuff said.
It's a good system.
The issue isn't the sniper, really. It's the fact that we all have so much more competition for what would have in the past, prior to eBay, been niche items wanted only by a few locals.
TJR
blksn8k,
I actually made this comment...
Does that sum it up?
Tom
I actually made this comment...
Does that sum it up?
Tom
buzz worth
Active Member
"A real man does not avoid conflict, but these snipers do." per Kevin
Were you were bidding on a case of sour grapes?
That's why they call it an "auction":wacko:
Were you were bidding on a case of sour grapes?
That's why they call it an "auction":wacko:
Bill V
Well-Known Member
And when you put in your bid at the last second, it also gives your opponent a chance to retaliate, AHEAD OF TIME.
No, you're not--that's the point you can't seem to get through your head for some reason. Ebay has automatic bidding. You put in your highest offer. They place the lowest bid possible that still wins the auction. If someone puts in a bid that is higher than yours, you lose the auction. None of this is at all related to when the bid is placed.
You claim that if the sniper were to put in their bid earlier, you would someone have a chance to "retaliate". If you have already bid the highest amount you are willing to pay, how would such retaliation be possible? The only way you could possibly win the auction now is to place a higher bid, and you can't do that because you're already bid the highest amount you are willing to pay!!!! If you were to increase your bid anyway in this situation, this would simply mean that you are letting the emotions of the bidding process get to you, and that you are now paying more than you had rationally determined to be the highest amount you'd be willing to pay. So actually, the snipers are doing you a favor by preventing this from occurring!!!
Both halves of this sentence are dead wrong.
Addressing the last half first--Snipers do not avoid "conflict". They may concentrate the timing of the conflict into the last seconds of the auction, but there is no more or less conflict occurring.
And now, more importantly, addressing the first half: your claim that "a real man does not avoid conflict"--Absolutely wrong!!! A real man avoids unnecessary conflict at all costs! He knows how to determine which battles are worth fighting, which aren't, and what the most appropriate way of fighting them are. Seeking conflict with others, simply for the sake of being in conflict, is not only morally objectionable, but it's sociopathic. As Kenny Rogers once said, "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to walk away, and know when to run."
Why do you waste your time doing this? If you put in the maximum amount you're willing to bid, the first time you bid, regardless of whether that bid happens two days before the auction ends or 2 seconds before the auction ends, you'll never be outbid unless the price goes higher than your maximum--and in that case, you'll always be outbid, regardless of whether the bid that beat you came in two seconds or two days before the auction ended.
They do not lack courage, and you are not being penalized. Why should your inability to adapt prevent them from using whatever strategy they feel is most likely to bring them success?
They condone snipi
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
BillV,
It is all sour grapes. You are right...these folks are mad at snipers that prevent them from getting things at bargain prices. I know people that snipe all the time, and they typically do so by placing bids that are reasonable and fair for the price of the item. Most snipers snipe auctions that they see are going for amounts that are too low.
I can understand the frustration if you have been sitting on an item for days with the highest bid and assuming you are going to get a good deal on an item, only to have it sniped in the last few seconds. That sense of getting a good deal that you had is the exact condition that snipers look for...items selling for less than they should. They often then snipe the items and resell them.
If you don't want to be sniped, make your first/only bid the max you are willing to spend, and remove yourself from the emotion and trauma of the auction experience. Then, if you get sniped at the last second, you will be outbid by an amount you never wanted to pay anyways.
TJR
It is all sour grapes. You are right...these folks are mad at snipers that prevent them from getting things at bargain prices. I know people that snipe all the time, and they typically do so by placing bids that are reasonable and fair for the price of the item. Most snipers snipe auctions that they see are going for amounts that are too low.
I can understand the frustration if you have been sitting on an item for days with the highest bid and assuming you are going to get a good deal on an item, only to have it sniped in the last few seconds. That sense of getting a good deal that you had is the exact condition that snipers look for...items selling for less than they should. They often then snipe the items and resell them.
If you don't want to be sniped, make your first/only bid the max you are willing to spend, and remove yourself from the emotion and trauma of the auction experience. Then, if you get sniped at the last second, you will be outbid by an amount you never wanted to pay anyways.
TJR
