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Why not just post it without the tool list? As a car amateur myself, I understand the want for a tool list, but having everything laid out for you just doesn't seem that great. There are always things you have to figure out on your own, no matter how detailed the project is, and the greater sense of accomplishment which comes from figuring it out yourself is a feeling to revel in. Pride and Glory are inherent traits in all Men.



Besides, working on your car is supposed to be a bonding process between man and machine. The more you know about your car, the more confident and skilled you will be in piloting it, and whether you treasure your car as a valued possession or just have it as a necessity, confidence and skill are 2 things that you most certainly need. I know that I want every driver to be skilled with their vehicle, and anything that increases that skill I am all for.



I have put my blood, sweat, and tears into every car that I have ever owned. My right hand's exterior palm is scarred from pulling out the airbox. My right elbow is scarred from scraping on cement while changing license lights. My knuckles are scarred from manhandling the heavy hood off of my 1992 LeSabre in a solo effort. I have countless other cuts, scars, and bruises, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Scars from valiant effort are something that every man desires and cherishes. Your car gets down and dirty for you every day--how can you say that you would not do the same for it?



I am currently working on restoring my devastated 1992 LeSabre, and I picked up all GM official repair manuals for her off of eBay, and I have to say that even the Worst written project we have on here goes into more detail and is more concise and helpful. The GM guides do not list socket sizes, and they do not even indicate which bolts to remove. They have arrows which say "bolt" on their little diagrams, but when you look at the car you find 6 bolts in a space only wide enough to get 1/8th of a socket twist in, and you have to figure out yourself which bolt to remove. All of our projects here have detailed Real Life shots with arrows, and the process goes incredibly smoothly.



Even without this tool list, I have confidence that Caymen's project will be superior to any manual, created by professionals, and that is more than we could ask for on a free site of enthusiasts from all backgrounds.



With explicit instructions and no experimentation and self-teaching, then you are not learning how to work on your own ride; Caymen is essentially working on the trac himself if he gives you step-by-step instructions. The follower of the instructions would just be a means for caymen to reenact his project vicariously on another truck. If you do that, working only under the direction of others, than your trac is essentially the property of those others, and you should mail the pink slip to them.



Besides, we noobs can't figure out how to do something in a project, then just let us pester Caymen about it, or some other kind forum member who has superior ST knowledge. One can only be taught the fundamentals--anything further must be garnered by one's self. No one started off as a trac expert. It took time and experience, and those who are now experts didn't have anything, let alone explicit instructions, to figure everything out. If you are just an instruction lackey, then you aren't endeavoring to learn anything for yourself, and without that self knowledge, you will lack understanding, and without understanding, you are accomplishing nothing, and clearly have no interest in the inner workings of things, and should just take your trac to a local shop and have everything done for you. The money you spend is the same as the instructions you read--they're doing all the work, so you can comfortably walk away. Real Men don't walk away from anything.



I vote to post the project as-is, unless our ohio-ian friend t
 
I disagree...its not the"higher powers" that are PMSing, its some of the members. I agree, Paul H could have stated the problem with less antagnosim, and at a later date posted preferred requirements for presenting new projects. And Tom, "with all due respect", you don't know what the site requirements are (since they are not posted). Other projects that you submitted may have been corrected and you were not aware of it. No big deal. As far as the guy the other day that got "jumped", if you read the thread you will see he brought it upon himself. There are over 13,000 members and if someone is not happy with how the site is organized or administered, they can leave and go elsewhere. It's the Holidays guys, enjoy them...
 
No problems with the ball joints on my Trac, but on the '02 Ranger I had before the driver's side ball joints went bad so quick they were fixed on warranty. Which was puzzling because you'd think that both sides of the truck would have the same number of miles. :lol:
 
First off I want to appologize to Joycie for getting off the topic this post was about. You received Tom's project amd I hope it helps and good luck doing the job.



If Tom wants it posted the way it was, which I still have then I will discuss it with my 2 other partners. But Tom please email me if you want it done and we will take it from there.



Like I said above good luck Joycie.



Paul H
 
Les,



FWIW, Rich actually requested that the projects be submited to him in any format we wished. He took out exact submission and doctored it to point the photographs to the new location.



When I was writing the project, I ran everything off my Camera Flash Card. When I decided what I wanted to show, I named the picture exactly what I needed it to be called. When I was finished, I opened the document with IE to check for any errors. I did the same with Firefox. Once I confirmed that the pages look fine in both browsers, I submited it to Paul. All he would have had to do is upload the pictures, change the locations of the photos and you are done.



Making a project is not as easy as you think it is. Trying to take as many pictures as you can while trying to concentrate on the task at hand is not easy. I used a small tool set to do the job. The only large socket needed was for the axle nut. That is not even required for a 4x2 Trac.



Check out my preious projects I have submited in the past.



This one looked the same as my originals.



Why do I prefer HTML based and not Acrobat PDF files?



Speed, server space, and reliability. HTML loads fast. No special software is needed to open it. If you are on the internet viewing this webpage, you already have everything you need to view one of my projects. Sure, it is ugly and boring, but it takes seconds to load.



It is like going to a website where the webmaster feels you need to watch some assinine flash introduction that takes too darn long load in the first place.



Some versions of Adobe acrobat will crash on start up.



All for simplicity in uploading the project.



Sorry, I will host my projects myself on my personal server from now on, if anyone is interested. I should have it uploaded and online in 30 seconds if there is any intrest in it.





Tom
 
Ok,

This is getting tiresome and OLD relay fast....



The reason for the projects being better in Adobe and Not .doc or the other formats is the ease to upload to this site.



The coding that was originally written does not allow for it to simply be stuck on the site and posted.



We have to convert them to adobe and re align the stuff that is not correct from the conversion.



Also the project can not just be pasted into the site if it is html, .doc or any thing else. That means we have to type the project and write all the HTML for it.



So we have opted to convert the all to adobe.





Tom,

You were getting sarcastic in the posts and I see why Paul was ticked. We were simply adding things to the project that would help the layman to do the project.



Like you have said before, you and I don't need the tool list, But the average Joe does.



Please let me know if you want the project posted as it was submitted, we can re size the pics and convert to adobe and get it posted.

Your call.



I ALSO see where Paul is wrong here too.



I just cant see how this little petty stuff is getting people all worked up,



This is useless anger and everyone needs to get over it.



The main issue seems to be that people were happy running a muck on the site, But now we have a presence on the site, try to keep things calm and collective and people are getting mad.



I bet if we left everything alone, we would get complaint emails that things are crazy as we were once we announced we bought the site...



Todd Z













 
Like you have said before, you and I don't need the tool list, But the average Joe does.



The aerage Joe needs to know if the project is something he could do himself. A guy that has no clue how to check his own oil is not someone you want to give a tool list to to attempt to work on a serious project like ball joints.



Seriously, I am not trying to be a jerk, but since my project was submited we have had numerous people asking about ball joints. I tell them the same thing. Project has been submitted, but not posted.



There is nothing wrong with what I submitted.



I already posted it myself on my server. 30 seconds and it was running. Not a big deal.





Tom
 
Rodger, That is my idea, I just spoke to Paul.

Toms project will be posted on this site so he can get his credit wrench.



We might add Paul's rendition as a separate project, or just put it in the FAQ or some place.



Since Tom wrote the original we can take credit for the original, so we are deciding how to post the second one.



George is out with family, he said tonight he will upload it to the server and make it active.



Todd Z
 
Just to weigh in on this controversy that's gotten completely out of hand: I also hate Adobe and would rather it be in another format. That being said, because I have a few websites I host myself, I realize how much easier it is to use Adobe and use it myself. I don't blame the Administrators for requesting it in Adobe form, although doesn't that involve having Adobe Professional? I own it but most people probably don't.
 
Nelson,



I have taken this issue over and made the decision to post it as it was submitted to us but it is being converted to adobe.



IF Tom would not like it posted then he may contact me and request it, But he did take the time to write it and deserves it to be posted. Also he does deserve the wrench credit as well.



Tom T,

We have Pro, I have most of all the programs, My line of work allows me to have them on my laptop.



WE DO NOT request what program you submit projects in, IT is easy to convert them to adobe for our ease of use.



But if any one writes a project it can be either or and we will convert it. Some people do not know how to use adobe and it is easier for them to make a .doc or HTML...



Todd Z



 
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Tom went to a lot of work here and put together a great project to help folks change their ball joints. His reward for doing all the work, taking the time to document it and take pictures, etc. is not appreciated. That sucks.



I could read what Tom put together and it would be very helpful for me. Guess why I don't put projects together? It is too much work and little appreciation, with people whining that it wasn't done right or used the wrong color of truck, or maybe a different kind of tool could have worked better, etc.



I do appreciate the help and advice of this site, even if the format or advice isn't exactly the way I would like to see it. When I am getting good information for free, I can overlook some of this formatting stuff.



I don't know how much work this site is for the administrators or how much it costs, but I am starting to think that just a plain, minimally-moderated forum might be easier for everyone concerned. It sounds like the administrators are ripping their hair out over all the work and high costs of keeping it going, and it sounds like a lot of the users are getting frustrated. Not trying to slam anyone here or just bitch--just pointing out that there seems to be a disconnect here. Don't know what the solution might be--but maybe a plain forum with minimal moderation might be the answer. Another solution might be to put the projects in a thread and allow folks to comment on the projects and modify/improve the project, kind of a wiki-style.



A couple of us here are also members of another technical and "family" forum that seems to work pretty well, if you'd want to see the format of what I am talking about. These folks police the forum pretty well, and the members are generally very helpful and courteous. It also has instant messaging and E-mail capabilities. The forum administrators/moderators never complain about the forum being too much work or it costing too much, either:
 
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I do appreciate the help and advice of this site, even if the format or advice isn't exactly the way I would like to see it. When I am getting good information for free, I can overlook some of this formatting stuff.



The forum administrators/moderators never complain about the forum being too much work or it costing too much, either:
:



Not trying to slam anyone here or just bitch--just pointing out that there seems to be a disconnect here.



Tell us how you really feel.....



The disconnect to me is the fact that we did something that we thought was helping everyone out. Apparently it was NOT.



So to me the answer is we see where it goes from here. As far as costs and time, Yes it can get overwhelming at times, but most people don't see or know the other side of the coin. I guess they just don't care what was done. I am not going to explain it either...



I thought we did a good thing and I guess I get upset when people slam me for what i did. We are sick of people that complain but do nothing to help or fix the problem, only add fuel to the fire.



I guess I might as well drive the sinking ship to the bottom because it seems people are all rooting for this to collapse and crumble !!!!!!!



EDIT: The other forum is the VBB layout, IT does work and can be easy to use, BUT here to keep everything the way it is it needs to stay like this. The converting over to the other style could cause loss of information and what not, I do not know that much bout it, But I have been told the work involved is not worth it. You might as well just trash this site and start all over and keep this one as a host of the stored pics and information, i guess....



But the VBB stuff was discussed and we do not want to go there with this....

Todd Z



 
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Someone has edited my post above. I just changed it back.



I never said "I do not appreciate..."



I never said "complain like little babies"



I never said: "Can also get rid of all of them completely"



This editing of my post is very troublesome for me. Does someone just want me to leave?



Sorry for the offense, but I am pretty furious that my post was edited.



I try to help and contribute. I try not to complain or bitch about things without suggesting a solution or something better. I try not to attack others. I try to stay with the issues.



Don't take this personal. This is about the site. I don't know you or have never met you. You post a lot of good stuff here and help a lot of people.



If you don't want to explain things or help others to understand something, how do you think they will understand it? When there is a lack of clear communication, how does not communicating help facilitate understanding?



Maybe I am not good enough to have a Sport Trac or be in this forum. I don't know what I have done to offend here, or why my posting was edited to read something different than I intended, so if you want to ban me, then go ahead. Any comments I had about this site were in the spirit of trying to improve it and make it more helpful and user-friendly for all, the posters, the lurkers, and the administrators.
 
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Gavin, I don't think that can be done on here. At least I don't know how and It is not something I hope any one here would stoop to do.



I will take it as a typo and Edit my quotes.



I also edited my post with some thoughts on the forum you have linked to.



Trust me, I hate to see people leave over any thing. The only ones that we want gone are already gone. Those were banned.



I did try to communicate it in the only way I know how or saw fit, But I was only slammed more for it.....

It just seems more and more negativity is coming out and it disturbs me that this is the case.



IF I did something wrong I want to be told, because I am taking all the complaints and negative comments as I did wrong, SO i am trying to fix that, But it is only coming back at me ten fold....:unsure::unsure:

Todd Z
 
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Not pointing fingers and I do not know exactly how the software is written, but I am sure it is possible for someone to manually edit something someone says if they have the right passwords.



Not saying that someone here would do that. Todd, you are the only person of the new owners that I have personally met. I do not know the others. I do not think you would do anything like that. I know Rich Stern always believed to let us do almost anything we wanted and only got inolved when he needed to.



I do not think Gavin would write those things either. I know of one of my posts ends up being different than what I wrote, you will be the first to know. I know you personally and I truly think you are an OK guy...for a New Yorker and a Yankees fan ;)





Tom
 
I do not think Gavin would write those things either. I know of one of my posts ends up being different than what I wrote, you will be the first to know. I know you personally and I truly think you are an OK guy...for a New Yorker and a Yankees fan



I dont think he would either, thats why I am not worried, and am taking it as a typo.



I hope I am notified if it does happen again. I am looking at the files, it would take a lot of work to do, something I would never do.



LOL, But I am not a Yankee fan..... Not all of us NY's are yankmee fans....



I personally do not watch any sports... Though Rachel is a true die hard Mets fan....



Todd Z
 
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