HELP! Install of AfterMarket Amp for upgraded Sub.

[Chad Merry]

I dont remember whick Kicker model number they are, but someone on here will know, they are the subs recomended for the narrow box. And yes they hit pretty hard if I have them turned up. The jack sits next to amp, although I cant use anymore unless I have a couple 2x4's under it.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

Kicker Comp VR

 

[Gary Hart]

Negative.... those are "Kicker 05C84"



http://www.sonicelectronix.com/cat_m23_i59_kicker-8--subwoofers.html



What is the cu. ft. of your two boxes there? AND... can you give me their dimensions (including thickness of material).



You've got me thinking I should probably remove the jack equipment from out of there and re-design my sub enclosure to make use of that sunken-in space down there.



Thanks in advance man, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Chad Merry]

Here is the project that shows how to build the box.

 

[Gary Hart]

So here's what I've done so far...

This speaker terminal connection cup is from Radio-Shack and it sucks BIG-TIME!!!

Everytime the sub-woofer hits it has a small buzz because it must be leaking air out.

I took it back out and put a ton of the caulk on the back-side of the push-connector

terminals and it only marginally helped. So I guess I'm going to have to break-down

and order one of the more expensive ones I saw on SonicElectronix or Crutchfield.

I haven't covered it with the NU-BUCK looking fabric yet since there is that dang speaker terminal issue. Plus... after viewing chad's setup... I think I make decide to re-design the

dimensions of the box in order to possibly gain more cu. ft and also to allow me to easily fit the rear kick-panel back on. I'll just have to move the Jack equipment over and re-mount it I guess. :wacko:

 

[Gary Hart]

 

[Chad Merry]

You may want to consider moving the RCA plugs as far away from the power and ground cables as possible. You could get some noise the way you have them all bundled together.



Also the other issue I have with mine, is on a looong road trip with the windows down and stereo cranked my amp overheats and shuts down. So I need to find a way to get some fresh air to it. My only option now is to lower the seat and remove the panel.

 

[Gary Hart]

There doesn't appear to be any noise getting picked up. The speaker cable is twisted inside it's sheathing too so that helps to counteract that phenomenon.



Overheating issues huh? Hmmph, well I guess my amp location is not that bad after all.



I like being able to mess around with the filter settings at will.



I replaced the speaker cup with an appropriate one for a sub box and that issue is gone. But for sure now I'm noticing that the sub itself has it's limitations on just how much it can handle when my volume is maxed-out on my stock 6-CD head unit (with fade set 2 clicks towards Front and DSP set to REAR SEATS). and it seems the music program influences this a lot as well.



Using my Bass Test CD (various sub-woofer testing tracks I sucked-down from LimeWire) it can go almost all the way to max with out hardly any distortion or mechanical slapping problems with keeping-up.



However, some music tracks can invoke the distortion or mechanical limits earlier in the volume range. (NOTE: I use Sound Forge and CD Architect to home-burn all my CD's and I always tweak the audio for maximum Normalization levels, I've noticed this adds a boost to playback volume as well since the head-unit/amp has a stronger signal to begin with.)



I get a nice boom/buzz to my butt thru the seats from the hits... but only a mild "tickle" to my chest via the seat-backs. I'm already thinking of either redo'ing the box using 1/2" MDF and removing the jack stuff and making better use of that under-area to boost cu. ft.

...OR...

the other option is that I'm strongly itching towards the idea of getting 1 shallow-mount 10" and making a new box specifically for it that will also try to make use of that under-area and expand it's width to the whole area back there by removing the jack stuff. :wub:



I wanna feel it in my chest, if I can swing it.



Was thinking I'll just use the 6.5" CompVT later when I start working on upgrading the wifey's system. (Nissen XTERRA '07)

 

[Gary Hart]

OK... so I'm not entirely satisfied with the Kicker CompVT 6.5" sub. It's not a bad litle performer at all... it's just that I wanna feel it in my chest.



During my research, I found that Power Acoustik now makes a 13" THIN-mount subwoofer (The THIN-13 the call it) that doesn't need tons of cu. ft. for the enclosure.



The apparently even sell this new woofer in a factory made thin-style enclosure (The THIN-13BX). I was poking around and found the outside dimensions for this enclosure, and after seeing what they stated was the internal cu. ft., I did some math and figured out that they must have used 5/8" thick material (MDF, probably?)



So, since the manual for the Comp Kicker VT 6.5" states to use 1/2" MDF for constructing an enclosure... I figured I'd redo my box, now using 1/2 instead of the 3/4 inch I did originally.



I wanted to see if using a much greater internal volume made a noticeable difference in sound quality. So I decided that I'd re-make this new enclosure with dimensions similar to those found on that THIN-13 box. The only difference being that I chose to extend the width dimension to try and harness even more cu. ft. Mostly I was just curious to see how an enclosure with those dimensions would fit behind the seats.



BTW.. I will say that with the larger enclosure the lil 6.5" can better re-produce the very low sounds now. However I believe my own personal dis-satisfaction either stems from the limitations of the driver itself, or it could also be because I'm still using a stock head unit.



Also, since this whole project has me listening with a much more critical ear now... I'm realizing the huge buzzing problems I now have with the door speakers which I had upgraded first before attempting the sub. I'm convinced that I will have to probably pop back off the door panels and somehow make use of Dynamat somewhere in their to stop that annoying buzz on the low hits.



Ok, with that having been said, here's the new enclosure that's approximately about 0.75 cu.ft. inside.



EXTERNAL DIMENSIONS

================

(15" 80-degree angled Front Panel) x

(5" Bottom Depth) x

(14.75" 90-Degree angled Back Panel ) x

(2.5" Top Depth) x

(38" Width)



head-on front view

[Broken External Image]:

side-view

[Broken External Image]:



I do believe that the highest part of the woofer's circle is possibly touching the seat backs when they are in the locked-in upright position and the cone jumps for a big bass hit. However, I got to thinking that possibly I could construct a square raised border around the woofer and make it taller than the highest point of the woofer excursion just so this border thing could push against the fabric of the seat back and hold them far enough away from the cone and surround of the woofer so as to prevent possible damage or impediment to the sound reproduction of the driver.



I'm not so sure that this same box profile would work though with the THIN-13 woofer though since it has like a 9mm excursion, which I'm sure is more than this 6.5" is doing. So I'm thinking I may end up going for a Clarion or Pioneer Shallow-Mount 10" sub... and then making a box just like this one... only in 3/4" MDF.... and making sure to create the cutout for the speaker right next the base of the front panel, which is where there is the greatest amount of gap between the enclosure and the backs of the seats.



I figured I'd bother going thru the trouble of showing these photos and letting you all know that an enclosure with these dimension does fit back there, because I'm sure there are other owners like me who'd like to make something that's stealthy and still allows for you to put the rear seats up.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

Looks good, pretty and symmetrical screws. You could use a lot less if you wanted to skip some though



I don't think dynamat is going to help your stock speakers much in the buzzing department, a high pass filter will do more because the stock speakers just aren't capable of low freq's.



The same goes for the chest pounding out a 6.5", I'm sure it sounds good, but it's never going to reproduce the lows at a high enough volume to really feel it. If you get a couple of them then you might get somewhere, but then you are quickly approaching the cost of a single larger woofer.

 

[Gary Hart]

Hey JDBoxes... you'll note that I mentioned I upgraded the door speakers.



There is definitely need for DynaMat'ing at the very least the doors anyway.



RE: HP Filter : The new Pioneers in the doors had a really good range listed on them. I wanna 20Hz (or 25Hz?) up to something recockulous like 30MHz. The highs on the new door speakers are far more piercing than the stockers ever were.



===



Sure-enough... I'm just gonna go ahead and move-up to a larger single woofer. :banana:



The inner-fold of the box packaging shows recommend dimensions and frequency response curves for SEALED, PORTED and BAND-PASS enclosures. I've already done sealed... I want booooom... their PORTED is same narrow width I need.. so fuggit!! Ported it is!!



If there is any other piece of info somebody would like me to take a pic of on the box lemme know.



And yeah... I went a lil over-built with the screws on that 6.5" box since I wanted to make DAMN SURE it was sealed the 1st time thru. Also since it's 1/2" MDF for that one I figured more screws would equate to less chance for resonancy.

I do have a question though... in this pic when they say "sound absorbing material"... are they talking about like DynaMat?

P.S. The 6.5" sub is not bad at all... just not enough for an Ex-Ghetto Boy like myself. So it'll be making it's way into Mama's XTERRA before too long.

 

[Gary Hart]

P.S. Question.... for the Port tube... I picked up some ABS from HomeDepot, and I'll just trim it down to the 12.5". Question is.. how do I go about attaching it to the enclosure???



Is glue/adhesive around the opening sufficient? Thinking that it wasn't enough... I also bought some thing galvanized plumbing strap. Figured maybe I could do something with that to further anchor-down the port tube... since it's soo long, ya know?



Anybody here have experience with ported boxes and wanna share their knowledge on that topic? :huh:

 

[Chad Merry]

When I made a couple ported enclosures a long time ago I used a PVC flange and cemented them together, and then screwed the flange to the box. Or you can drill a couple pilot holes and just use a couple brad nails, and seal it. Both ways have worked for me.



Either way as long as you install the tube first before you put the front panle on the box you can do it however you want. make a couple small tube supports that screwed/glued to the bottom of the box. You have lots of options..

 

[Clay Campbell]

Good luck fittin that in there. Im not saying you can't im just saying its gonna be close. My shallow woofers are 10" with a 3" mounting depth. Since the baskets on these shallow subs are so much wider than traditional subs it was very tight fitting my 10's in there. I think your basket is just a little wider than mine. But if you want to feel in your chest I have the formula for you. I have been nothing but amazed at the volume and clarity I got out of 2 10" shallow subs in .3 cubic feet a piece.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

Screws are for holding the wood together while the glue dries, glue is what makes the seal. So no matter how many screws you use unless you have enough wood glue in there is still isn't going to be sealed adequately. More screws doesn't hurt though :lol:



When you cut the hole for the port make it a little on the small side so it is nice and snug and glue it heavy from the inside and a small bead on the outside, more like a construction adhesive for this one though. Or the better solution is what chad mentioned about the flange because that will help reduce port noise also.

 

[Gary Hart]

I was looking at like shower drain type fittings but they slip on the outside of the tube. Also their flange in very wide and since the box is soo narrow anyway... didn't seem like it'd be the right idea to go that route.



It sorta looks like the port tube might be resting on the bottom floor of the enclosure. I was thinking that's where the plumbing strap would come in handy. Figured I'd do a loop-de-loop around tube... pulling the straps taught and screwing such that they'd become even more taught on both sides. I figure there's got to be a ton of pressure bombarding that thing during sub hits.



I watched a vid on YouTube apparently made by some guys who are part of Rockford Fosgate and they just used glue and a minor amount of (I wanna say) air-stapler staples.



In response to chad's comment about it fitting. I don't think I'll be able to play the sub without the rear seat it will reside behind being folded down first. We'll see on that one. I'm okay with that though. Most of the time I have the "60" side of the rear seats down to take my dogs to the park everyday. Figured I'd put the enclosure on that side. The "40" side stays up all the time because that's where I have the car seat for my toddler.



So JDBoxes... On this last enclosure I did... I only used "Liquid Nails" in-between, and added where seams meet. No wood-specific glue, no silicone. And it seems to work great. Although I did buy some Window and Door 100% silicone caulking for eventually putting underneath the lip of the speakers basket once I felt happy that the box was put together well and not leaking anywhere.



and check this out... the Fosgate dudes don't even put in speaker terminal cups, saying that they leak. they just drill a hole large enough for their gauge of speaker wire... than seal from within with silicone. Not sure how I feel about doing that way though. The Terminal box I used for this 2nd enclosure seems to work great!



Nobody answered by question about the "sound absorbing material" Pioneer is talking about. Heck... Pioneer wouldn't even answer that one directly and told me to go to forums and see what local installers are using. (WTF!?) I'm assuming they just don't want to be mistaken as endorsing a product ???



JD... you mention "port noise". School a brutha on what you're talking about there man, would you please?



BTW... big thank you to all you bassheads (just like me) for sharing your experiences and tips man. Can't tell you how much I appreciate it!

 

[Gary Hart]

Hmm.... I just checked-out Clay's library with the Memphis Shallows.



I was thinking about taking-off that plastic divider thingy on the floor like you did. Figure that'd pick-up a significant more amount of width available for the base panel of the enclosure, yes?



I was hoping to avoid doing that, but it's lookin' like I'll have to.



For now I'm sticking to just one subwoofer, since the amp I got only goes to 300Watt x 1 @2 ohms. (250Watt x 1 @4 ohms).



But even so... pioneer's MAXIMUM/minimum/Recommended cu. ft. values for this speaker are listed as follows:

SEALED: 0.7 cu. ft. MAX / 0.35 cu. ft. MIN / 0.45 cu. ft. Recommended

PORTED: 0.7 cu. ft. MAX / 0.5 cu. ft. MIN / 0.6 cu. ft. Recommended



I feel very certain I could make it fit (even with seats upright) if I took off that plastic divider on the floor. Without taking-out the plastic divider on the floor... I know the enclosure would fit behind the seats, but I don't think I could play it with the seats up or else they'd smack into the seat backs somethin' fierce.

 

[Jacob Dryer]

I can't pretend to know this for fact, but it was explained to me, and I've read in several locations that wood glue causes a chemical bond between the pieces. It seeps into the wood and bonds it's fibers together. Liquid nails and all those other adhesives only bond the top layer of mdf to the other top layer, so it forms a weaker connection than true wood glue. Again I can't back this up with anything other than that's what I've been told and read several places.



So when I build boxes, I wood glue all the pieces together. Then before putting on the final piece I hit all the corners with a flexible silicone caulk (for tubs/baths usually). It may be overkill but my boxes don't leak



Cheap terminal cups leak, and even expensive ones aren't at leak proof as a hole stuffed with wire and silicone. I almost never use terminal cups on any of my boxes. Easier construction, less cost, no leaks.



Port noise is the rushing sound of air from it coming in and out of the port. It's really noticeable when your port diameter is too small. So it may or may not be audible it totally depends on the box/power/sub combo. Easiest way to explain port noise is for you to pickup a straw and blow through it, that is port noise..



Sound absorbing material could be either mass loading (dynamat equivilent) but I'm not sure why since 1/2" or 3/4" mdf isn't going to resonate unless it's a large unbraced piece. Or they could be talking about a foam acoustic barrier, and the only reason I can think that would help is by reducing standing waves, but that really shouldn't be an issue either. So I think they are nuts and trying to sell more product :wacko:

 

[Gary Hart]

HRmm... Interesting... thanks for the notes JD. I ended up having to go with a sealed box configuration due to size limitations of the area it will reside in. Did a LOT of hemmin' and hawwin' over it... even built a 2-sided mock-up of the profile of the enclosure so I could put it behind the seats and visually inspect clearances.



There's just no way I can construct the ported box with the port diameter they recommend. It ends up making the base of the box too to then allow for space for woofer excursion.



So now it's gonna be:

==============

3.5" Top Depth

12" Back Height (the 90 Degree side)

5" Bottom Depth

30" Width

.75" MDF

=======

=.47624 cu. ft.



Found a really neat buncha calculators at this link...



http://www.the12volt.com/caraudio/boxcalcs.asp#frac

 

[Chris Kulbaba]

Try www.bcae1.com