Home Central Air/Heat....Kind-of long, sorry...

[shawn stonbraker 2]

Sorry all. Just need to rant.



Rant on:



We decided to get a Central Air/Heating system installed in the house. We looked and asked around and found a reputable company. (after siding the house (myself) all summer, I figured this would be a nice addition) Well it was installed in Sept. of last year. When they put it in, they had the wrong "heat strip" so they said the heat pump should be able to handle heating the house without the strip since the temps over the weekend should be ok. We had a wedding in Boston so off we headed. We got back Sun. night to find that the heat pump wasn't able to keep up and the house was 50'F inside. So they came the next day and installed the new heat strip. Everything seemed fine till the temps dropped below 0'F here lately. My wife woke up the first morning after a 0' night and it was 60'F inside the house. Called them and they came out and found the heat strip wasn't able to "keep up" when the temp went below 0'F. SOOOOO, they came back out and put a bigger heat strip in. (at no charge) They also said they would have to come back out to check the charge in the heat pump when the temps outside get over 35'F. Over the weekend here I had to call because one of the outlets was letting any air through it. They said they would have someone out Mon. morning to look at it. So, I went up there and opened the valve for it myself and figured that I would just let the guy come still in the morning, because we noticed that when the unit first turned on, it would blow cold air for the first 5 minutes and actually drop the temp in the house 3-4'F before the heat strip would turn on and heat the air. The guy came that Mon. morning and it wouldn't do it. It would blow warm air when it first came on. Then all of a sudden it finally started to do it. He figured it was because the heat pump needed to be charged and said he would set it to "emergency heat" (which turns on the strip automatically when the unit kicks in). It worked heating the house fine two days. Well, the temps were good today to charge the heat pump, so they were out there about noon today to get it going correctly. Before I left for work (at 1:30), I jokingly asked one of the guys how it was going and I get "Uhhh, we are still working on it". I knew then it wasn't good. My wife just called to tell me the update. They were gone when she got home from work, but they left a message on our voice mail saying "the heat pump is going to need replaced, it seems that it was never working right from the get go". It is stuck in between heating and cooling (thus the reason it would blow cold air)and they can't get it fixed. They will be out hopefully Fri to replace the entire heat pump, but if not, they will be out Mon. morning. Now, this thing has been running ALOT since the temps have gotten cold because of the initial BLAST of 5 min. cold air. Our electric bill is going to be sky high! My wife (who is no push over believe me!!!!) is going to wait till we get our electric bill and raise all holy hell, to see if they will cover some of it.



Rant off.



On a good note though, the place has been very good as to trying to find/fix the problem. They have been very respectful and even the one owner (who came and gave us the estimate and told us the unit would be the perfect one for the house) even admitted he made a mistake with the original heat strip he put in up there. He miscalculated the output-to-heatloss for the system to our house. Not many people are willing to admit that. He even said they will do everything it takes at no charge to get the system right. I do know a few people who have had systems put into thier house and when it didn't perform to thier expectations they were told, "well, that's the system you chose, that's what we put in, and we will be willing to come out and put in a bigger system and you can cover the difference in cost". That is why we chose these guys. We heard nothing but great stuff about them.<

 

[Lloyd Curry]

stonemeiser,



You live pretty far north to be running a heat pump.



I'm in Northern Virginia and here the backup or emergency heat is propane. My unit is new in a new home. When the temperature goes below 40 degrees the outside thermostat cuts off the heat pump and the propane takes over. Consequently, I don't think my unit has ever had to defrost. It saves a lot of wear and tear on the compressor. Of course propane isn't cheap but it heats the house quite well.



In my previous houses, the electric strips came on at the same time the heat pump continued to run. Eventually, when really cold, you had to turn the emergency heat on to cut the pump off and run on just the strips and they could have a hard time keeping up. I'm sure that's improved since my older systems.



I like my current setup as I believe the pump will last a lot longer. Now if I could just find a cheaper propane source.

 

[Ron N]

It is bad that the system has had trouble. It is great that they came back and fixed it for free. That is a good sign of good dealer and person. I use to install alot of heat pumps and when the temps fall down below freezing they have trouble keeping up. I just reset my outdoor thermostat to 40 degree's, so it turns on the gas heat at that time. Electric heat is expensive. You need to get ahold of your electric company and tell them that you now have a heat pump w/ electric backup heat. sometimes they give you a better rate, at least around here they do. They also use to give a rebate for installing a heat pump, this depends on your area. THe problem with the heat pump sounds like the reversing valve was bad and sticking. That doesn't happen very much, even in older systems. You were just one of the "lucky one's". I would explain to the dealer that you are concerned with your electric bill before you get it, to test the waters. He may say that he will help you with a percentage of the bill. But don't hold your breath. He has been real good at the warranty of his work. Then again you may be surprised that the bill will be less if you kept all the baseboard heaters running to keep your house warm. What was your last bill before the install? If you don't mind._Ron

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

We usually average on cold months about $300-$350, and that is the whole house is electric. There are no gas lines close to us. (we checked into it and it was going to cost us quite a bit to have it run) The last bill after the install was about $320. We were happy with it. That was just the system without the baseboards. The way this system is supposed to run is, the heat pump comes on and after a cirtain time, if the temp hasn't gone up, it turns on the heat strip. The heat strip is 15,000 BTU. The first one they put in was a 10,000 BTU.

 

[Gavin Allan]

Keep the heat pump running even at very low temperatures. As long as it is running, it is probably extracting more heat than the energy it takes to run it (COP >1). There is no reason to turn it off in cold weather, because the worst it can do is make the same amount of heat as the electricity it takes to run it (COP=1). A heatpump can never run at (COP<1). Of course you will need to bring on the strips if the heatpump can't supply enough heat to keep the house warm. However, you might as well use the heatpump and enjoy the efficiency it gives you, even if it can't do the job on its own during cold weather.



Gas heat-- throw all of this out. Gas is probably cheaper to run than heatpump at some level of cold temperature, but this is very situation-specific, depending on utility rates, efficiencies of equipment, etc.

 

[Gypsy me]

Stonemiser, I think you chose the right company, people are human and the owner himself was "honest" enough to admit his fault.



It wouldn't hurt to ask about the large bill you anticipate, up front. Maybe they will pay half?



Word of mouth is everything... it makes or breaks a business. Sounds like the owner of that company understands that.



all I really know about heating a home...is * wood burning stoves...I like 'em!*

 

[Rodger Tellefson]

And that was a reputable company? I hate to see what a not so reputable company would do, or not. In my opinion a heating/air conditioning company that is worth anything and has been in business for some time is that area should know what temps they are dealing with and installed it correctly w/o any problems arising. Just my $0.02.

 

[Lloyd Curry]

Stonemiser,



My propane feed comes from a 500 gal. buried tank. The fill is actually 400 gallons capacity. You'd have to have enough property to allow the burial of course.



The house is new so I've monitored my fuel use carefully and am still assessing. We've had one of the coldest February's (in the top ten) this month. During extreme cold temperatures I appear to burn around 5 gals a day. Price per gallon varies from $1.92 to $2.20 per gallon. Let's say $10 per day. Normal year I average 3 gallons per day during heating season. So, in the extreme, $300 a month. My heat pump ran for the first time in a month yesterday with warmer weather. I heat, cook and heat the hot water with propane. My electric bill runs around $100 per month. Total square footage at around 3400 sq. ft.



Not too bad considering the price of fuel. Biggest worry is no regulation on pricing of the propane. Not sure if I would go electric strips if I had to do it over again. Here in Va. the power company is going to go from deregulated to re-regulated due to State concerns over rising rates, even with so called competition.



A lot of my neighbors burn wood in powered fireplaces but I chose not to mess with that. I have propane fireplace that I never turn on.

 

[shawn stonbraker 2]

Thanks for all the posts all. Thats why I love this site.



Roger & Georgia, I agree. They should have known and that is also another thing he said. The thing is, and I have to agree with him is, we have had pretty "mild" winter temps the past few years. Not saying that it wasn't cold, but it has been along time since we have had sub 0 temps here. The one thing they didn't factor in is, I live atop a hill. One of the tallest around. The direction the wind comes from is over a large farm that is nothing but fields. We will always have wind even when no other place has it. So when everyone else has wind, we have strong wind and so forth. So our temps up here are even lower than anywhere else. It's funny at times. It will be snowing/raining at my house and when I drive to town, which is only 1 mile down the hill, there is no snow/rain. It's like I drove into a time wharp. So, I can understand alittle on how they didn't calculate right.



As I said, they have been a stand-up company so far. I will let you know what happens after Fri. when they can hopefully get the new unit in.



Gypsy~me and Irc, We are also looking at getting a pellet stove for down in the basement (it furnished) when the kids get alittle older to have when the electric goes out. We are also getting a generator that my wifes cousin is going to hook up (he's an electrician) for the time being. Unfortunatly, we don't want to put propane tanks or heating oil tanks on the property. We had thought about going that route, but as you stated, it is cheaper to run electric here than to pay for propane, gas, or heating oil. We get one bill for everything since it is all electric in the house. The highest it has been in the 5 years we've been here is $360. So we can't complain to much about it.