How much do cigarettes cost???

[TomT]

Tax on beer? :blink:

NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION!



By the way, I don't know about other states but earmarking funds for special needs like schools here in Texas is a joke. They never see most of it and the damn legislators just use the money for other projects.

That's why I will never again vote for a Republican or Democrat.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Gavin, then also tax joggers...their blown out knees cost us millions in healthcare each year. And, tax people who mountain bike, parachute, ski and do other extreme sports for the same reason. See where I am going?



The results of individual choices create a societal burden...and not all the choices are necessarily bad, or deliberate. It's part of living in a society. That's just the way it is. We might not agree with fatty's third trip to McDonald's this week, but there are choices that we all make that affect one another and put a burden on society. The more we get petty about the burdens and try to punish individual choices, the more likely we all get punished sooner or later.



Don't get me wrong, I am not excusing drunk drivers and other law breakers. If we feel strongly about changing behavior then pass laws...don't create monetary punishments. And have the laws start at the source, the food companies and restaurant chains. If fast food restaurants were as regulated as bars we might go a long way towards solving some of the problems. Would you agree with a law that limits the amount of calories in a meal (or order) a restaurant can serve? That a restaurant cannot serve people certain foods if they are clearly obese (no fries for you)? That higher caloric and fatty foods be taxed so that they are less of a low-cost commodity for the poor and the companies that sell them aren't as profit rich? Would those sound like good laws?



TJR

 

[Mark Grumpy]

This is not a "do-gooder" issue. This is an issue about smokers, drinkers, and fat people not paying for their behaviors.

hhhmmm - this is indeed a do-gooder issue. An issue of you trying to tell me what I should or should not do and how much I should pay for it. This statement is reminiscent of the "kill all Muslims" statement a few days ago to which some folks took exception. I just had a burger (double whopper) and fries, I'm still drinking my large Dr. Pepper and I had a smoke for desert. I'm 6'2", 205 and spend 15 minutes a year in the doctors office - because the military says I have to. Do me a favor and don't lump us all in the same basket.

They need to raise the taxes like crazy on cigarettes, beer, and whiskey.

Tha's already been accomplished. Approx 90% of my smoke purchase is tax.



grump

 

[Bill V]

This is not a "do-gooder" issue. This is an issue about smokers, drinkers, and fat people not paying for their behaviors. These folks are getting a free ride in life because their public assistance medical bills, their uninsured damages, and their health care costs are being paid by all-- not just them.

Gavin, if this was true, and you truly believed that it wasn't a "do-gooder" issue, then you never would have said that you're "with Darin". He proposes to raise these high taxes, and use them for schools and roads.



If you truly believe that this is about smokers and obese getting a free ride on medical bills and health care costs, then you'd be proposing implementing this tax, and using the resulting funds to directly pay for those health care costs--in effect, you'd be creating a means for smokers/overeaters to pay for the problems their habits are causing. But when you put that money toward schools and roads instead, you're still going to have the medical costs you're bemoaning--and you're still going to have all of us, smokers and non-smokers alike, thin and obese alike, funding it.

 

[Gavin Allan]

OK Bill, I agree with you. The money raised ought to be used to pay medical bills and fund cessation programs.



Like Tom T said, earmarking funds doesn't do much good. The fools in government just cut the funding from other sources to keep it the same.

 

[Alan Caruth]

They are up to about $5.70 a pack here and getting ready to go up again if I remember right. I quit in late 1999 and they were getting ready to go up to $3.50ish a pack at that time. When I quit they were still about $2.50 a pack.

 

[Chops]

I smoked from age 15 to 21, kind of obligatory being born/raised in NC in which both my Grandfathers were tobacco farmers. 21 is when I woke up and said WTF am I doing?



And 21 was long ago to provide any useful data as to the cost per pack, but $8 per carton sticks in my mind for premium brands.





[Broken External Image]:

 

[Deleted deleted]

lol Bill-E... guess the nicotine must be talking for you



My point is if a person undertakes obvious unhealthy behavior, then that group and that group alone should bear the costs. I don't smoke so I shouldn't have to pay a dime of a smokers' health care costs.

 

[Bill Ellis]

Started with cigs, now the lawyers are going after soft drinks and fast food. Fact is, insurance is a sharing of risk. Consider that women of child bearing age typically have much higher med expenses then men of the same age. Why should my med insurance help pay for them to have babies? Big, knobby tires cause more road damage than passenger tires; perhaps they should have a $1000 tax per set. Customized vehicles that are tuned for more power should be taxed because we all know that they are involved in more accidents.

 

[Jake Levin]

Darin, what about the people who pay property taxes that have no kids in schools, yet their taxes go to public schools? Should those people get a tax break then? what about people who send their kids to private schools? Should their property tax go down as well? I smoke, I drink, I ride a sportbike, I pay for my own health insurance as well as my co-pays. I also pay more for my life insurance b\c I'm a smoker. Please don't lump all of us into a category, it's called stereotyping. There are non smokers out there who sponge off the system just as much as smokers.

 

[TomT]

True. It's no different from people that don't wear their seat-belts or motorcyclists that don't wear helmets. And I won't even get into immigrants that abuse our health system.

 

[B M]

Bill-E I understand your point about just wanting to be left alone and not bugged for your choice. However your comment of Pepsi and bottled water...Whens the last time either of those second hand killed someone?? The point being, Second hand smoke kills ya. The other day for example, some JackA$$ stands next to my 10 month old blowing smoke all around, I gave it a bit of time, but honestly I couldn't take it anymore, and asked them to relocate, quickly because my baby didn't smoke yet, they got the hint and left the area. You wanna smoke fine, you want to be gay, fine, you want to be an junky, fine, you want to drink till you lose everything, fine, you want to get an abortion, fine, you want to pray all day everyday, fine, you want to hug trees and save whales, fine, just DON'T force ANY of your issuse on me. By blowing your crap at me youre doing the same thing as everyone saying they should raise the price of your habit. Think about it.

 

[Bill Ellis]

Brian, I agree with you about being responsible when smoking. I make it a point not to smoke around non-smokers. Never smoke in buildings or vehicles. Don't smoke in crowds. I'm aware of others' dislike for my habit and act accordingly. But, that has nothing to do with adding more taxes. Also, there has been no definitive, independent study that indicates second hand smoke kills anybody. All of the studies have been conducted by groups who are opposed to smoking. The real issue here is that once a small part of a society starts dictating their behavior on the whole society, as the Taliban did in Afganistan, there will be no end to the limitations of personal freedoms. Keep in mind there are those out there who would like to get rid of SUV's and all other larger vehicles. Start with cigs; move on to foods, then what? Your Trac maybe?

 

[B M]

LOL - - - I understand what you are saying, Thanks for the laugh about your defense to second hand smoke. The following is from the Phillip Morris site. Basically agreeing with Healthcare officials, like say the Surgeon General, not that MTV group whatever it is called.









Smoking & Health Issues



Secondhand Smoke





Secondhand smoke, also known as environmental tobacco smoke or ETS, is a combination of the smoke coming from the lit end of a cigarette plus the smoke exhaled by a person smoking.



Public health officials have concluded that secondhand smoke from cigarettes causes disease, including lung cancer and heart disease, in non-smoking adults, as well as causes conditions in children such as asthma, respiratory infections, cough, wheeze, otitis media (middle ear infection) and Sudden Infant Death Syndrome. In addition, public health officials have concluded that secondhand smoke can exacerbate adult asthma and cause eye, throat and nasal irritation.



Philip Morris USA believes that the public should be guided by the conclusions of public health officials regarding the health effects of secondhand smoke in deciding whether to be in places where secondhand smoke is present, or if they are smokers, when and where to smoke around others. Particular care should be exercised where children are concerned, and adults should avoid smoking around them.



We also believe that the conclusions of public health officials concerning environmental tobacco smoke are sufficient to warrant measures that regulate smoking in public places. We also believe that where smoking is permitted, the government should require the posting of warning notices that communicate public health officials' conclusions that secondhand smoke causes disease in non-smokers.









Thank you for your regard to other people's concern, I mean that . I don't feel ANYONE has a right to tell someone else that what they are doing is wrong, of course we are talking about voluntary acts, that have an effect on one's self. The government however is an elected body for the most part, so WE as a nation are giving them the right to tax us on just about anything. I can almost guarentee the platform for the next elections will be based around our little war going on and things like gas prices etc, etc. No relief will be had, however they will spew research and development into finding alternate resouces to drive our vehicles. Tax my Trac, I really don't care. If I want the Trac, I will pay to play. Tax cigs to death, people are still gonna smoke, legalize drugs and prostitution, tax that too. win win situation. Kinda wandering off here, but back to the original statement, I think there are PLENTY of resources out there, from places that don't have a personal vendetta against smoking, that state second hand smoke ain't gonna help you live longer. Thanks for the laugh though. Again, as previously stated, your regard to people around you IS appreciated while you enjoy your rights...

 

[Bill Ellis]

Very good Brian. Now show me the study that came to this conclusion. Don't repeat what you read. Do some real research and find the study. Analyze it and see if it was done by an objective party. Just for your info, you will see the same types of warnings for much of the foods we eat and beverages we drink. If you listen to "Public Health Officials" and act upon their recommendations in all regards, you will drastically change your life style. No red meats, no fried foods, no white bread, no sugary drinks...and on and on and on. It's easy to pick on something that you do not like. But remember, there are others out there who ARE picking on the things you like.



An old saying from WWII......."when the Nazis went after the Jews, the Catholics said they didn't care because they would never come after us. When the Nazis came after the Catholics, the Lutherans said they didn't care because Germany is a Lutheran country. When they came after the Lutherans there was no body left to care."

 

[Mark Grumpy]

Brian,

good research, point made and very well stated and respectful post. Well done!! I am a smoker but respect your right too, like Bill mentioned above. And if some clown lit up around my 10 month old I might have turned the smoke backwards and stuck it up his nostril :blink:



Now, about that water and Pepsi... nah, just kidding.



Cheers





edit

Bill - that paragraph is straight from phillipmorrisusa.com I know they have been mandated to provide warnings but I have to believe they are not going to post some unfounded points reagrding their own product.



grump

 

[Bill Ellis]

Hey Brian,



Read this.

 

[Tom Schindler]

Showtime has a program Called "Penn & Teller: Bullshit!". They did an episode on secondhand smoke. They had evidence that there is NO PROOF secondhand smoke is deadly. It is a theory that someone made up and they look for evidence to prove it and throws away evidence that doesn't.



As a non-smoker, I think smoking is nasty. I feel "clean air" laws are bullshit too. If you want to smoke, sit in the smoking area. If all the customers are smokers, then let the whole place be a smoking facility. Don't like it? Stay home. The ultimate decision maker in a business to decide on it's smoking stance should be the owner. Not the the county, state, city, or federal government. Not a smoker and like to visit bars? Open up your own non-smoking facility. If there is a demand for a non-smoking bar, then peole will come.





Tom

 

[Bill Ellis]

Grump, actually they were forced to post government mandated statements as part of the Tobacco Lawsuit Settlement. In exchange for not paying billions, they will post anything because nobody pays any attention to Surgeon General warnings anyway. Take a look at your Trac Owners manual and count how many pages are devoted to seatbelts and safety vs. how many actually tell you about operating the Trac. Which pages did you look at first?

 

[Mark Grumpy]

I'm with you Bill - mostly:wacko: I know it is a mandate, but I also think the language would have been different if the Cancer Man himself didn't believe it.



I think you at least partially believe it too, which is why you give the respect to the non-smokers around you.



Thanks Caymen - I'll have to agree. However, even as a smoker, I prefer the non-smoking section of the restaurant. I simply cannot stand smoke while I'm eating - yuck. I also do not smoke in my house or vehicles.



P.S. Bill - can't look at my Trac manual - I traded it a few months ago. Now I'm just a troll



grump