Ryan Schaecher
Well-Known Member
US Olympic Coverage is being beat by CSPAN
I'm not buying this Bode Miller crap......
- Thread starter Frank Marano
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Dale Carter
Active Member
WooDy - Good points. Body and Daron Rahlves changed skis the day before the event to a new technology. The day of the event Bode stayed on the new skis and Rahlves (a better downhiller) went back to the old skis. Even though neither skier medaled, Bode smoked him, so the question might be would Ralves have been faster with the new ski.
Which is mroe shocking, that the US didn't medal, even though heavily favored or that a Frenchman with NO pre-Olympic race shot at placiing WON the gold and by a HUGE margin? Does that demonstrate the volatility (and thus excitement) of the Olympics and the razor thin margins that seperate winners from losers?
TJR - yeah, they are such slackers, how else could they dominate the top level of worldwide comptetition? I am sure Shawn White and the rest of our boarders dominated for some unknown reason, it must be pure luck. Keep in mind that the Jacobellis loss (BTW, she is the current snowboarder corss WORLD CHAMPION) kept us from SWEEPING the golds, not just winning.
Does that mean that Lance is a slacker loser because he got spanked at the Olympics and all those Tour de France wins were a fluke?
Our snowboarders are the OVERWHELMING success for the US at these games. We have won every gold, except two and EVERY silver but one. Yes, TJR, our young athletes just suck don't they?
Bottom line guys, our athletes are world class and should not be judged on a single event. I am thrilled that we have a chance at medals other than figure skating, like it was when I was a kid.
Which is mroe shocking, that the US didn't medal, even though heavily favored or that a Frenchman with NO pre-Olympic race shot at placiing WON the gold and by a HUGE margin? Does that demonstrate the volatility (and thus excitement) of the Olympics and the razor thin margins that seperate winners from losers?
TJR - yeah, they are such slackers, how else could they dominate the top level of worldwide comptetition? I am sure Shawn White and the rest of our boarders dominated for some unknown reason, it must be pure luck. Keep in mind that the Jacobellis loss (BTW, she is the current snowboarder corss WORLD CHAMPION) kept us from SWEEPING the golds, not just winning.
Does that mean that Lance is a slacker loser because he got spanked at the Olympics and all those Tour de France wins were a fluke?
Our snowboarders are the OVERWHELMING success for the US at these games. We have won every gold, except two and EVERY silver but one. Yes, TJR, our young athletes just suck don't they?
Bottom line guys, our athletes are world class and should not be judged on a single event. I am thrilled that we have a chance at medals other than figure skating, like it was when I was a kid.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
DC...Hey, all I heard was that Bode is a primadonna, not finishing runs, not showing up for course inspections, parking his RV away from the rest of the USA camp, etc.
Sorry if I have little respect for that lack of class. I didn't say they suck nor did I say anything about their athletic achievements, I just said a few could use an attitude adjustment. Talent and skills don't allow one to be a jerk when standing before the world showcase.
This guy says it better than me:
Sorry if I have little respect for that lack of class. I didn't say they suck nor did I say anything about their athletic achievements, I just said a few could use an attitude adjustment. Talent and skills don't allow one to be a jerk when standing before the world showcase.
This guy says it better than me:
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Dale Carter
Active Member
TJR - True you didn't say they "sucked", that was my sarcasm at your statements that they lack "hard word, dedication, honor, commitment, sacrifice and responsibility" and "have a " pretty much GIVE UP at the least sign of adversity"
I was questioning how they have acheived such greatness in light of such lack of character.
That guy at SI may be on to something. The link pretty much supports the idea that Body has had a down season and one theory is a lack of off-season base training. A change in training routine can hurt any athlete and adjustments have to be made over a long term. It isn't like he has been crushing people all year and just decided to party and blow off the Olympics.
If a few beers at dinner would ruin a performance, Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle and Roger Clemens would have stunk it up.
I was questioning how they have acheived such greatness in light of such lack of character.
That guy at SI may be on to something. The link pretty much supports the idea that Body has had a down season and one theory is a lack of off-season base training. A change in training routine can hurt any athlete and adjustments have to be made over a long term. It isn't like he has been crushing people all year and just decided to party and blow off the Olympics.
If a few beers at dinner would ruin a performance, Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle and Roger Clemens would have stunk it up.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Yup DC...but still no excuse to not finish races, seemlingly just because it looks like you are going to do poorly. That's what it looked like, and for that, there is no excuse in my book.
Dale Carter
Active Member
I didn't see that race, did he fall or have a major screw up?
I agree that it is always best to finish, but if you are obviously out of it, don't risk injury. Plenty of those in these Olympics.
I agree that it is always best to finish, but if you are obviously out of it, don't risk injury. Plenty of those in these Olympics.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Regarding: "...but if you are obviously out of it, don't risk injury..."
Sounds like a convenient excuse for giving up to me. Unless injured you should finish the event. Giving up is for crybabies and weanies.
Sounds like a convenient excuse for giving up to me. Unless injured you should finish the event. Giving up is for crybabies and weanies.
Dale Carter
Active Member
TJR - So let's say Bode had crashed in the first hundred yards of his downhill attempt, he should jump up and scream down the hill at over 80 MPH risking an injury which would prevent any other shot at medals in other events for absolutely no reason? In an even won by hundreds of a second? That isn't very smart, but it would be macho.
Same argument for a college junior who turns down millions in the 1st round of aprofessional sport so he can "finish his degree".
Part of being an athlete is knowing when to gut it out. I think the most offensive part of this is the idea that these people aren't tough and didn't get to the top the exact same way as every other elite athlete in history. Take tremendous natural talent and work your ass off from about elementary school until your 20's or 30's and then enjoy your overnight success by beating everyone else who did the same thing. Talent alone will not take you to the pinnacle.
There is also a nostalgic feel that athletes of previous years were somehow better people. Top athletes have ALWAYS been self-centered and selfish. That is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact, it is a requirement. It is hard sometimes to tell people that you can't do something because you have to train and EVERYONE competing at the Olympics has done that very thing.
I laugh at us arm-chair-quarterbacks who criticize them because WE don't think they are dedicated enough. If anyone out there has national championship, Olympic medal or other high athletic award, feel free to talk about them. Until then, "Go USA!".
Critic - a person who can't do something as well as you, but explains why you aren't any good at it.
Same argument for a college junior who turns down millions in the 1st round of aprofessional sport so he can "finish his degree".
Part of being an athlete is knowing when to gut it out. I think the most offensive part of this is the idea that these people aren't tough and didn't get to the top the exact same way as every other elite athlete in history. Take tremendous natural talent and work your ass off from about elementary school until your 20's or 30's and then enjoy your overnight success by beating everyone else who did the same thing. Talent alone will not take you to the pinnacle.
There is also a nostalgic feel that athletes of previous years were somehow better people. Top athletes have ALWAYS been self-centered and selfish. That is not necessarily a bad thing, in fact, it is a requirement. It is hard sometimes to tell people that you can't do something because you have to train and EVERYONE competing at the Olympics has done that very thing.
I laugh at us arm-chair-quarterbacks who criticize them because WE don't think they are dedicated enough. If anyone out there has national championship, Olympic medal or other high athletic award, feel free to talk about them. Until then, "Go USA!".
Critic - a person who can't do something as well as you, but explains why you aren't any good at it.
Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Rationalize all you want..quiters are quiters. Your examples aren't apples to apples with not finishing a run/event.
Please don't give me the whole "critic" definition and armchair QB stuff. I am entitled to my opinion and shouldn't be belittled for it. You don't see me belittling you for your's do you?
As for NOT being entitled to an opinion because we don't have the medals and awards ourself, that is a cop out. I am not a soldier nor have I served in the military, yet I am entitled to my opinion on the Iraq war. I have never played football as part of an organized team, yet I am entitled to my opinions on the last Super Bowl. You can DISAGREE with my opinion, but to say I or others don't have the right to it, well than be careful because then we would all just have to STFU and only talk about those things and people who we have walked in their shoes (maybe that WOULD be better, but that isn't the world we live in). You are giving the athletes accolades...How many MEDALS do YOU have? Being a critic and being critical doesn't always mean a harsh opinion.
You seem a little overly sensitive of the harsh critics. Why is that DC?
BTW, I am done with this thread...I hit a nerve on you and for that I am sorry, but it seems the nerve was twitching before I ever said anything.
TJR
Please don't give me the whole "critic" definition and armchair QB stuff. I am entitled to my opinion and shouldn't be belittled for it. You don't see me belittling you for your's do you?
As for NOT being entitled to an opinion because we don't have the medals and awards ourself, that is a cop out. I am not a soldier nor have I served in the military, yet I am entitled to my opinion on the Iraq war. I have never played football as part of an organized team, yet I am entitled to my opinions on the last Super Bowl. You can DISAGREE with my opinion, but to say I or others don't have the right to it, well than be careful because then we would all just have to STFU and only talk about those things and people who we have walked in their shoes (maybe that WOULD be better, but that isn't the world we live in). You are giving the athletes accolades...How many MEDALS do YOU have? Being a critic and being critical doesn't always mean a harsh opinion.
You seem a little overly sensitive of the harsh critics. Why is that DC?
BTW, I am done with this thread...I hit a nerve on you and for that I am sorry, but it seems the nerve was twitching before I ever said anything.
TJR
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Dale Carter
Active Member
So a skier not completeing a run because he knows he is out of the medals or may risk injury is not apples and apples with Bode not finishing a run because he is out of the running and may face injury?? An athelete who doesn't finish his commitment is not analgous to not finishing a run? Bodie, specifically, finished every run that he had any chance of placing. Only when he hits gates or nearly fell, did he not finsh as fast as possible. Hmmm, your logic is strong.
How many medals? No Olympic medals, but I didn't just say Olympic medals did I, I believe I included high atheltic award, did I not? I have a Southeastern Regional championship medal in mountain bike racing, state championship in football (highest level, three guys to the NFL) a brother who played baseball and football (All American) in college, a father who coached all the way to semi-pro baseball and a best friend who was the national high school high jump champion adn ran 4x100 at Alabama, so I know what an elite athlete is.... but that isn't the point is it? I am defending these athletes, not belittling them, but I have spent my life around elite athletes and I get irritated when people criticize them becasue they don't act the way THEY think they should act.
Yeah, I am sensitive to people who have never done anything even approaching these events thinking they know what kind of a PERSON these athletes are or what kind of scarifices they make. If Phil Mahre wants to talk about what a loser the guy is, I will not be "overly sensitive" (your words, notmine) to him because, guess what?, he knows what he is talking about.
I have never said you don't have a right to an opinion, only that it may not be very well informed. I didn't belittle you (did I hit a nerve?), in fact, I included myself in the comments about armchair quarterbacks.
Actually, my comparisons are legitimate. If the athlete, due to his lifetime of experience and expertise, decides that the risk of injury is not warranted, that is the ONLY decision and opinion that matters. I wish i could rememebr the name of the NFL running back back in the 1970's who was criticized because he would step out of bounds rather than take the hit for the last yard or two. Didn't matter that he had a LONG career and ended up in about the top 10 of all time.
Through with the thread? Quitter. :lol:
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Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Let me clarify my "not apples to apples" comments, then I am out of the thread. You said:
That's not an apples to apples comparison. Quiting because you don't think you can place and wish avoid injury is quiting, IMHO. The example you gave is not quiting in mid event, or mid game. Sure, in both cases there is an optimizing that is going on, but they are very different.
Regarding Bode, what if he fell out of the gate, should he not get right back up and finish? Quiting to avoid an injury while others in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and other contenders ahead continue AND risk injury just doesn't seem RIGHT nor SPORTSMANLIKE.
Injury is a likely event in ALL sporting events. So if a football or soccer team is behind with no chance of catching up should they forfeit the rest of the game to avoid injury? Those are apples to apple comparisons.
Sure, if you have no chance of winning, then lighten up a little, slow down, take it easy, take less chances (step out of bounds in the case of the football player), but don't QUIT!
It's simply poor sportsmanship, IMHO.
Or are the conditions just SO bad in Torino that these skilled, trained athletes can't go down a track even in a sandbagging fashion without getting hurt? Or, might it just be more of an attitude that "If I can't come down, with style, in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, then I'm just not coming down at all!"
BTW, I said I was quitting because I seemed to be hurting your feelings as you seemed to and continue to seem to want to make this personal, which typically means its downhill from there.
I am still entitled to my opinion. I have more respect for any and every kid in the special olympics that ran the race, fell down, and got back up and finished than I do for Bode Miller right now.
TJR
That's not an apples to apples comparison. Quiting because you don't think you can place and wish avoid injury is quiting, IMHO. The example you gave is not quiting in mid event, or mid game. Sure, in both cases there is an optimizing that is going on, but they are very different.
Regarding Bode, what if he fell out of the gate, should he not get right back up and finish? Quiting to avoid an injury while others in 1st, 2nd, 3rd and other contenders ahead continue AND risk injury just doesn't seem RIGHT nor SPORTSMANLIKE.
Injury is a likely event in ALL sporting events. So if a football or soccer team is behind with no chance of catching up should they forfeit the rest of the game to avoid injury? Those are apples to apple comparisons.
Sure, if you have no chance of winning, then lighten up a little, slow down, take it easy, take less chances (step out of bounds in the case of the football player), but don't QUIT!
It's simply poor sportsmanship, IMHO.
Or are the conditions just SO bad in Torino that these skilled, trained athletes can't go down a track even in a sandbagging fashion without getting hurt? Or, might it just be more of an attitude that "If I can't come down, with style, in 1st, 2nd, or 3rd, then I'm just not coming down at all!"
BTW, I said I was quitting because I seemed to be hurting your feelings as you seemed to and continue to seem to want to make this personal, which typically means its downhill from there.
I am still entitled to my opinion. I have more respect for any and every kid in the special olympics that ran the race, fell down, and got back up and finished than I do for Bode Miller right now.
TJR
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Nelson Atwell
Well-Known Member
Quitting just to save yourself for another day is stupid in the Olympics. An athlete prepares their whole life for the chance to win an olympic medal. Giving up before the race is over makes the whole journey to get there pointless.
Tanja Frieden of Switzerland understands this very well, and I bet Lindsey Jacobellis' tiny mind is beginning to understand this too. If you look at the replay of that snowboard event, Jacobellis slowed up before she even tried her hot-dogging jump. She already figured she had won. Frieden kept on racing, even though she had almost no chance of catching Jacobellis.
No one knows how these things turn out until the medals are awarded. I racer may appear to win, but then lose because they missed a gate or because of doping. Athletes that give up don't deserve medals, because by quitting they are self-identifying themselves as losers.
Tanja Frieden of Switzerland understands this very well, and I bet Lindsey Jacobellis' tiny mind is beginning to understand this too. If you look at the replay of that snowboard event, Jacobellis slowed up before she even tried her hot-dogging jump. She already figured she had won. Frieden kept on racing, even though she had almost no chance of catching Jacobellis.
No one knows how these things turn out until the medals are awarded. I racer may appear to win, but then lose because they missed a gate or because of doping. Athletes that give up don't deserve medals, because by quitting they are self-identifying themselves as losers.
Dale Carter
Active Member
TJR - The Olympics, and all elite competitive sports are about winning. Period. What kind of an idiot would take a chance at injuring himself during an event, just so he could be a good sportsman, and remove himself from medal contention in the next three or four events? Wouldn't that be a bigger disservice to his team and country?
A college athelte leaves before his eligibility is out is ok, but a guy not finishing a run is not? Why, time factor? I know that scholarships are year-to-year, but you seem to think there is a moral imperative to perform as expected and not quit. Wouldn't we agree that an elite college athlete is generally expected to play out their eligibility?
I have re-read my previous posts and fail to see where I "seemed to and continue to seem to want to make this personal". Personal information was provided about me when directly requested and I included myself, as I pointed out earlier" in my criticism of arm chair quarterbacks.
"which typically means its downhill from there." Now THAT is clever!
A college athelte leaves before his eligibility is out is ok, but a guy not finishing a run is not? Why, time factor? I know that scholarships are year-to-year, but you seem to think there is a moral imperative to perform as expected and not quit. Wouldn't we agree that an elite college athlete is generally expected to play out their eligibility?
I have re-read my previous posts and fail to see where I "seemed to and continue to seem to want to make this personal". Personal information was provided about me when directly requested and I included myself, as I pointed out earlier" in my criticism of arm chair quarterbacks.
"which typically means its downhill from there." Now THAT is clever!
Rick Kent
Well-Known Member
Based on the post that started all of this it seems that the biggest transgression committed by Bode was not winning gold when expected to.
Would all of Bode's character flaws be excusable to you if he actually won gold?
Would all of Bode's character flaws be excusable to you if he actually won gold?
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Thomas Rogers
Well-Known Member
Dale you and I have a difference of opinion. You find it okay to quit during a competitive event when it is clear you cannot win/place in order to avoid injury, I don't. Nuff said.
BillV challenges my use of the word "Quit" below, and that is a different story. If indeed Miller was DQ'ed because of missing the gate, then he had no obligation to finish the run. If that is what happened, than fine.
BillV challenges my use of the word "Quit" below, and that is a different story. If indeed Miller was DQ'ed because of missing the gate, then he had no obligation to finish the run. If that is what happened, than fine.
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Bill V
Well-Known Member
The run that I saw where Bode 'quit', he had missed a gate. At that point he is out of the competition, the run is over--period. Therefore, he didn't 'quit' until he was officially done. Everything he did after that, when he was coasting down the hill, wasn't giving up or laziness--that was simply clearing the course for the next competitor. I see nothing wrong with his actions there.
In fact, from a certain perspective, it may actually be a sign of better sportsmanship for him to quit at that point the way he did than to continue full bore. For him to charge on, may have been seen by some as akin to a basketball player getting fouled at the top of the key, and then driving the lane several seconds after the foul is called to dunk the ball.
I do need to say that I haven't seen all that much of the Olympic skiing so far this year--so you may very easily be referring to some other run of his, that I'm not aware of. If that's the case, please ignore my comments.
In fact, from a certain perspective, it may actually be a sign of better sportsmanship for him to quit at that point the way he did than to continue full bore. For him to charge on, may have been seen by some as akin to a basketball player getting fouled at the top of the key, and then driving the lane several seconds after the foul is called to dunk the ball.
I do need to say that I haven't seen all that much of the Olympic skiing so far this year--so you may very easily be referring to some other run of his, that I'm not aware of. If that's the case, please ignore my comments.
Dale Carter
Active Member
BillV - screwing up a good argument with facts HAHAHAHAHA
Falls and loses two seconds or misses a gate and gets dq'd, either way he is "through". Yo're right, difference of opinon.
Weren't you going to quit about three messages ago?
Falls and loses two seconds or misses a gate and gets dq'd, either way he is "through". Yo're right, difference of opinon.
Weren't you going to quit about three messages ago?
