Low, low prices: Target beats Wal-Mart...

[Andy Chase]

Bill,



I've heard that same reasoning. That's why they usually are only around the front doors or large glass windows. Gander Mt does it as well.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Bill V,



Starbucks and Caribou are arguably much more premium brands, higher-margin stores. Although, Starbucks has had to reverse that image of late, because McDonalds has been kicking their butt during the recession with their McCafe' introduction.



TJR

 

[Bill V]

The Walmarts here rival Target in clientele and cleanliness.

Mark K--Where is "here"? Just in Baldwin? (Is there one in Baldwin?)



I'm in the northern Twin Cities 'burbs, not all that far from Baldwin, and I have yet to find one that's decent in either category...

 

[Kevin Lang]

Actually, as I consider it, WalMart is probably one company that *might* benefit from unionization.... Most of their new stores are nice, clean, and have pretty respectable looking employees. However, their "older", smaller stores in certain communities are simply depressing, with many employees that seem otherwise unemployable. ... Better pay, better benefits WOULD LIKELY bring a better class of employee.

If Wal-Mart were to unionize, would not all of these current "undesireable" employees be grandfathered into the union, and gain all the protections that unions are notorious for offering? (Specifically, job "protection"?) If wal-mart retains them, and pays them more, have we accomplished anything besides the proliferation of unionization?



Right now, if those Wal-Marts wanted to, they could fire the dregs of society in their employ and work to acquire some better employees. If they refuse to do this, and Target conquers them, isn't that just capitalism at work?



Unionization itself could kill wal-mart--could it remain nearly as profitable with all the demands the union will make? Wal-Mart is gargantuan, but then again, so were the Big Three automakers. The union, representing the largest importer of Chinese goods in the USA, would inevitably be a puppet of politics which has never been good.

 

[Johnny O]

1) If Wal-Mart unionized, there go the low prices.

2) It's been well-documented that Wal-Mart employees don't want to unionize.

 

[Mark K 2]

Mark K--Where is "here"? Just in Baldwin? (Is there one in Baldwin?)

Hudson, New Richmond, Menomonie, Eau Claire. They're all bright and clean with oh-so-friendly workers escort you all the way across the store to the item that you just asked about. There are no lines at customer service on welfare check day and none of the customers are seen on peopleofwalmart.com. :bwahaha:

 

[Tom Schindler]

Mark,



Wait a year. The store will mature into a real Wal*Mart store. You will have burnt out lightbulbs, boxes in the middle of the isleway, and broken tile everywhere.



All Wal*Marts go that way soon enough. If yours is not that way, it just hasn't been there long enough.





Tom

 

[Kevin Lang]

All Wal*Marts go that way soon enough. If yours is not that way, it just hasn't been there long enough.

I'm going to +1 this.



My local wal-mart was in such horrendous shape that they abandoned their rather huge building and built a monolithic new Uber walmart in a new business park.



In addition to the decrepit state they let the building enter in to, there was also the issue of rampant crime at that location.



It almost seems easier for wal-mart to move its operations to a new building than to deal with its issues. That really does seem to be the modus operandi for my local wal-marts.



...and already, the new walmart has edged dangerously close to peopleofwalmart.com territory.

 

[buzz worth]

Sounds like some here are talking out of both sides of their mouth.....Walmart might be the low price, cheap, dirty store (I don't see the "dirty" part here at any stores) but they are American owned and operated.

Now.....Who owns Target? hmmmm...seems those profits go out of the good old U.S.of A. to our good partners in world activities, the French.



fire away, double talkers.



buzz

 

[Rick Kent]

The new Super Walmart in my neck of the woods is less than a year old. They have gone green and have skylights illuminating the store exclusively during the daytime.



It is clean and well spaced and I have not noticed the undesirable element begin to creep in yet.



However, the old Walmart 15 miles away is dirty and small. A virtual Disney Land for welfare recipients to be avoided at all costs.



Our Target is not far from the old Walmart making it less convenient for "in a pinch" purchases and I wind up going to our new SWM when no one else is open.



I stand by my register issue at our local Target.



Maybe I just have hit them at the wrong times, usually mid day duringthe week. They may have less staff on hand to immediately open the next register.



I understand that Walmart has a similar policy of more than 5 in line, open another register but I have never seen it put into practice.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

I don't so much see new WalMarts going bad, to the dumps, dirty, etc. Instead, I see the old WalMarts, those that are 15 years or older that have NEVER really been that great, just get worse.



The new, WalMart Super Centers that are 5 years old or so, are still great looking. And, those seem to have better people working at them, and a better profile of customers. It seems the crappy ones don't have more of the "beautiful people" working at them, or frequenting them.



That's what I am seeing.



Will the newer Super Centers get crapped-out one day? Maybe. I'm just not seeing it yet.



For those that haven't seen the dirty, crappy WalMart stores, well, you are going to have to believe the rest of us...they are there, moreso in older, established areas (read: older communities).



KL, JohnnyO,



Regarding your thoughts on the unionization of WalMart, I tend to agree with your thoughts. Yes, WalMart could raise their wages today, and they could fire the dregs and try to attract more "beautiful" employees (I am using that term deliberately, because, let's be honest, at a certain point life truly is a beauty contest...like it or not, dress for success, not being a slob, those things are important in some jobs). However, I considered that. I think the "message" that WalMart could send through unionization would be a good marketing message. Might prices go up? They might. Would they have to? Not necessarily, not with approx $13B in profit last year...there is some wiggle room, I suspect. Still, profit is not an evil thing. My point was that there are those that don't shop at WalMart, and there are those that might be willing to shop there and pay more IF they felt that WalMart treated their employees more fairly, and to those potential new customers, unionization might bring them in. That is all I was trying to say...



TJR

 

[Mark K 2]

Wait a year. The store will mature into a real Wal*Mart store. You will have burnt out lightbulbs, boxes in the middle of the isleway, and broken tile everywhere

Nope. Hasn't happened at any of them.



Around here, K-Marts are filthy, unstocked, and have minimal employees. The only time I go there anymore is to look at their nursery plants in the spring.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Mark K,



Same around here. In the 70s, K-Mart was king. For the past 20 years, K-Mart has been crap, sold crap, and looked like crap. I was FLOORED when K-Mart bought out Sears, absolutely FLOORED!



Still miss the good old days of the Woolworth lunch counter. Even remember a K-Mart lunch counter in the New Hartford, NY K-Mart back in the day. Nostalgia...



TJR

 

[H D]

Might prices go up? They might. Would they have to? Not necessarily, not with approx $13B in profit last year...there is some wiggle room, I suspect. Still, profit is not an evil thing.

As a former employee who saw more things than I was supposed to, I can promise you there is very little wiggle room on their prices. They rely on quantity of sales to make the profit. The mark-up on individual items is very minimal, honestly. I am no fan of Wal-Mart but I do admire their business plan, in-as-far-as they are very profitable. This is why you can see barely damaged things just get thrown away. Any mark-down to sell at a clearance price is really just selling it at what they basically pay for it, so in the scheme of the effort and space it takes up to try to sell damaged and clearanced stuff, it's just as effective and more efficient to just throw it away.



Unionization would kill everything Wal-Mart has built their company around. The employees have again and again turned down efforts to unionize. The fact that there is so much interest in unionizing Wal-Mart speaks more to the motives of unions than to the needs of the employees.

 

[Tom Schindler]

For the past 20 years, K-Mart has been crap, sold crap, and looked like crap. I was FLOORED when K-Mart bought out Sears, absolutely FLOORED!

K-Mart was in bankruptcy when they bought out Sears. I can not understand how that works.



Lets see, you owe more than you are worth. So you somehow have the money to buy out someone larger than you.



I don't understand how that works.

The employees have again and again turned down efforts to unionize.

Wal*Mart has shut down stores where the employees voted a union in. I have never heard of the employees turing the union down. if that was the fact, then there would be no need to shut down a store because the employees turned the union down.





Tom

 

[Kevin Lang]

Around here, K-Marts are filthy, unstocked, and have minimal employees.

Sad to hear that K-Mart is bad nationwide.

Wal*Mart has shut down stores where the employees voted a union in.

I don't understand how that works.

I really don't understand how or even why employees can "vote" in a union. A business is not a democracy--not if it values longevity--nor is it Congress where the "employees" decide on their own pay raises & benefits.



"Sir, we took a vote and the majority of us want to unionize" -- employee delgate

":rofl: Sorry about that, it was just the funniest thing I've heard all day." -- boss



IMO, a business should take drastic measures if its employees have mutinied and taken over the business from the management. Wal-Mart thankfully has enough staying power, and low requirements for employees, so that it can beat back the union hun.

 

[Thomas Rogers]

Hugh,



Though I agree their margins may be slight, still, $13B in profit in 2010 seems to imply some wiggle room on salaries and benefits. A full-time equivalent (FTE) is about 2,000 hours a year. Even if only talking about 1B less in profit, that is enough to give 500,000 employees a dollar an hour raise. Now, I think WalMart has over 2M employees (need to check that), so that would take closer to $4B of their profit to give everyone $1/hour raise. Clearly, I agree the margins are narrow, and a huge amount of profit would be cut into in order to provide any real meaninful increase in pay and benefits.



I've also hear that at some WalMart locations where unions have tried to come in often as many as 1/3 or more of the employees have favored the unions paints a slightly different picture about the possibility of unionization. This was quoted on the news program I saw the other night.



The profile of the people that I have seen on various TV programs that what unions at WalMart fit into one of two categories:



1. The paid union advocate, that is a young, slick, attractive profession paid by union affliated organization with their entire JOB to run rallies and to spread news about why unions are needed, and why without unions WalMart is hurting America.



2. The less than beautiful, less than bright, less than well educated, less than ambitious otherwise on welfare employee that simply wants to be paid a few dollars more an hour, and get much better medical coverage, all for a more secure job of punching a clock for 40 hours a week, and doing a modest amount of work in the process...just enough to not get fired.



Now, obviously I am seeing these two profiles of people through my lense, my bias, but damned if that's not exactly what I am seeing, time and time again, whenever I see these programs about WalMart and unionization.



Now, there is a third type of person, and that is the current WalMart employee that does not want unionization, and they are.



3. The person that wants a part-time job, wants to work for a pretty good employer, feels very comfortable that if they do their job well, they will get to keep it; and they are bright, relatively ambitious, clean, neat. These are moms that have gone back to work; the elderly soon-to-retire or semi-retired, and the young worker not yet starting in their full-time career. For these people, they'd rather keep more of their money, and value the more direct relationship they have with their employer.



I think the reason we don't see unions making inroads into WalMart is because WalMart is savvy enough to cater to the employee described in that third profile. There are a lot of people in this country that want a part-time job and are otherwise probably over-qualified for the WalMart job. However, the reality is, there are probably twice as many people wanting those same jobs, and want them to provide better benefits and pay, because they have few other employment opportunities.



I blame welfare. It too away incentives to educate onesself and to work hard to get ahead for many generations in this country.



TJR

 

[Thomas Rogers]

KL,



Regarding the "...and low requirements for employees...", I find that interesting.



Most unions will tell the employer that the wouldn't be able to do business without their skilled union members working for them.



Frankly, due to automation, etc, that's simply becoming less and less the case anymore, in almost all areas of business. Sure, the building trade still is skilled, and has skilled laborers. But even that is become more and more "pre-fab", etc, with some trades actually being paid more to do less (Comcast Center toilets is a great example...plumbers paid to NOT put in toilets because flushless made them obsolete).



TJR

 

[Johnny O]

K-Mart was in bankruptcy when they bought out Sears. I can not understand how that works.

Back when that happened there was business writer who said that K-Mart and Sears merging was like tying two drunks together so they would stagger down the street in a straight line.



The K-Mart in my town is actually pretty nice but they have an annoying tendency to be out of whatever it is that I need. It's just much closer to my house than Wal-Mart. I usually go there first with the understanding that I'm probably going to have to drive a few miles and deal with traffic and red lights to get to Wal-Mart anyway.

 

[Kevin Lang]

TJR, to make sure we're all on the same page, my intention was to say that Wal-mart can resist unionization attempts because their employees who would clamor for unionization are easily replaced as there is no particular skillset that an employee needs to work there.



While, to use your numbering system, #3 people are in increasingly short supply, #2 people are quite plentiful and if it were to become necessary Wal-Mart can hire them, and then terminate them when they clamor for unionization, rinse & repeat, and likely still make money.



That does seem to paint a rather bleak "Gangs of New York" styled picture, but we can't justly blame Wal-Mart for the decline of the populace.



I thought person #3 was what an American was supposed to be, not a rare and dying breed.

Most unions will tell the employer that the wouldn't be able to do business without their skilled union members working for them.

Yes, and disguised in that union's informative statement is a thinly-veiled extortion threat :angry:



I'm sure if there were to be a Wal-Mart union, they would propagate the same BS claims, and maybe even top the absurdity of your plumbers' union example.



Yet, I agree that the claims are completely unfounded. Robotics and automation are mercifully replacing the grunt who maintains a myopic outlook on the future of his employer (and thus him). Combined with American engineers finding new ways to innovate, offering product redesign services, some products are making a return to American Manufacturing from Chinese manufacturers, and are remaining competitive.



Soon the #2 person will be the 21st century equivalent of the original luddites, fighting against innovation instead of against their own inadequacies.